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on this episode of skeptic oh we've

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established as well as we can the

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physical phenomenon tell us about the

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spiritual phenomenon as it one started

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and then as it progressed you have some

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very provocative controversial

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information that you've brought back and

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also some information that you think is

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important scientifically if we will

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about what's going on with consciousness

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so gee where do you want to begin

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if you said why have you been happy look

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upset about our evolution it's about

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learning and every now and then we get

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these odd cases like mine thrown in and

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it gives science it gives the medical

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profession it gives us all an ability to

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look deep into something that interests

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us and that might have answers and

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spiritually one of the things that you

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know I often hear you know if you don't

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believe that an NDE is is a real event

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and they say well it's caused by false

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memories or illusions I can say without

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any hesitation that is absolutely not

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the case

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[Music]

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welcome to skeptic aware we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics I'm your host Alex Icarus

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and on today's show a very interesting

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challenging account from someone who's

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had just an unbelievable number of

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near-death or real death experiences

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Beverly Gilmore as you'll hear in this

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show has experienced 30 years of more or

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less continuous often on near-death

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experiences what she's gained out of

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that the message that she has is I think

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quite controversial or at least it will

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be for some people there's definitely a

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strong Jesus angle to her experience but

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she also has an insight in terms of

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consciousness that is quite unique and

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quite interesting as well and could have

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implications for near-death experience

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research and consciousness research in

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general I was extremely skeptical going

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into this interview and am well I have

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to say I'm less skeptical coming out I

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don't know what to make of everything

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that Beverly has to say and you'll hear

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that in this interview as well but I'm

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not too quick to dismiss what she says

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either I hope you enjoy my interview

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with Beverly Gilmour today we welcome

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Beverly Gilmour to skeptic Oh Beverly is

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the author of a journey of actual death

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experiences who I am the new divine

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teachings of Jesus a book in which she

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explores human consciousness and her

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understanding of it from amazingly 30

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years of more or less continuous near

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death and after death experiences it's

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really quite an amazing account and I've

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just expressed to Beverly I have all

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sorts of skepticism but at the same time

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I'm anticipating some of the really

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remarkable things she's discovered in

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this medical and spirit

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Jurnee she's been on so Beverly it's

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awesome to have you on sceptical thanks

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so much for joining me great being here

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thank you for having me here well so as

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we were just talking about uh you know

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you've been at this for a while that's

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not even the right way to say it you you

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really have to kind of start I think

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with your story because it's a unique

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medical story in terms of your

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experiences with what we've come to know

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as near-death experiences but as they

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kind of manifest in you it's kind of

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even more of a medical mystery can you

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start just by kind of telling your story

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well it actually began in 1987 and to

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say that it's been my life it is an

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understatement you know it's been 30

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years and when they first started you

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know and for many years after I had no

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idea what was happening to me and I

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reached out and reached out and

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gradually so so let me let me interject

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right there because even that we have to

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say what it is that happened to you how

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it physically felt and then that first

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point is really important that when it

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first happened you geezers were

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completely unaware of what's going on so

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what was it like the first couple times

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this happened what what physically did

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you feel I physically felt the very

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first times it happened is my very first

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time just my head came out of my body

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that was all and so I didn't sort of

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like I didn't even know what near-death

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experience was anyway but I didn't

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really understand I just thought I was

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dreaming and then a few nights later

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I was able to sit up and I noticed that

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my legs were were stuck I couldn't move

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my legs or I contained myself around but

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I couldn't move my legs so this is it at

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nighttime you're going to bed in that

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time it never happens it happens when I

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actually go to bed if I go to bed during

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the day it could happen but it only

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happens when I'm in that state of

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complete rest so just let me probe that

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time

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a bit further is it deep in kind of a

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REM cycle is it early on and they kind

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of hypnagogic state when we're first

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falling asleep when does it occur a lot

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of people have associated that with you

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know

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astral projection out-of-body

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experiences is it that is it something

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different

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medically you've kind of looked into it

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what's going on there well actually goes

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on it

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it happens straightaway as soon as I

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actually you know I when I'm going to

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have one I'll be lying down and I can

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sense this is happening because I and

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it's sort of like I go into a very very

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deep sleep but then I pass our stage and

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it's like I suddenly become aware of

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everything and I'm telling my body to

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move I'm instructing it to actually move

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and I can see what's going on around and

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move but I know my eyes are shut and

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then I think that I actually feel myself

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rising upwards and that's when I'm

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actually coming out and out of my body

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and what it turns out is from the now

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that I've been and being treated by my

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doctors is that first of all what

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happens is I'd go unconscious and so

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this is something to do with the brain I

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actually go unconscious and then that

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affects my heartbeat and then my

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heartbeat slows down until becomes known

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and as that happens

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it affects the breathing and then there

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the next thing that happens is my brain

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starts shutting down so it's all you

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know it's all connected it's like a

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cycle and it all happens spontaneously

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each other and then I actually leave my

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body and that's basically the pattern

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over so I have no connection to the

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physical body till I can't see myself

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lying there so so Beverly one more

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medical question there you said your

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heartbeat goes to nil is this something

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your doctors have verified or even you

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know someone around you has verified

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that your heartbeat is very faint or you

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know medically that have to kind of hook

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you up to an EKG or something and say

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you have no heartbeat what are you

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saying when you what are you saying

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medically when you say that it stops

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because I mean

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stops it stops guilty how do you know

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that well I can see but half of the

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people around me who have actually

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witness did they actually see me going

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to this state

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well me not non-responsive at all and

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also in 1989 Oliver when I was they

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actually stopped when I got pregnant

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okay which was it's something that I'd

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like to look into more and then on the

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eighth month of the pregnancy I had one

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and I got really upset because I didn't

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know you know how to damage my baby you

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know and I ended up in hospital and I

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flatlined on the machines and the

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gynecologist and the doctors are capable

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they actually induced on about eight

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weeks early in case I had another one so

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that was the first time I came to the

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medical attention was 1989 so Beverly at

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that time when you were in the hospital

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and they say you flatlined were you

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outside your body at that time

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witnessing it

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yeah I was and I luckily I was I was

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hooked up to monitors because they were

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lumps in the baby so I was hooked up got

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to heartbeat monitors and everything

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what did you think as you were observing

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that outside and and then also on that

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related question did that feel similar

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to these other experiences where you can

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say I was flatline there so I probably

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was flatlined other times or did it feel

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somewhat different than at other times

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it is exactly the same the awareness was

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the saying it was no it was exactly the

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same it's not it's not being any

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different from from beginning it was

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just the only difference in the FO

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beginning was those first three times

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when I didn't come out my body

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completely and then about the fourth

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time I actually came straight out and

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since then I was always just straight

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out you know as soon as the heartbeat

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stopped this is the brain started

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shutting down breathes and stuff came

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straight out and how long will these

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periods go when you are medically

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clinically dead

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how long in our time will that last

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well it sort of did they there's no set

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rule to the time period it's a case of

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you know it's been a few minutes you

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know just things like that it's never

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been four hours but it's been a few

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minutes but people love them there

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because when I come back I start jumping

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you know as if I'm being brought back

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and I start the body starts to jerk

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upwards and you can see me jumping as if

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I'm get being given electric shock

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because what actually happens to me Alex

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and this is fascinating this is

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fascinated by science is when I'm aware

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of returning back into my body I

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actually focus on the back of my brain

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stem at the back and it's like you

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literally are plugging something in and

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you know when you plug something in you

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get burst of energy but that's what it's

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like I get plugged back in and this ball

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of Energy's bright and it just explodes

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and it just travels down my back into

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through my spine and it hits my heart

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and it literally no and that's what

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actually brings me back it's actually

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stringing my heart back to the rhythm

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it's and and normally only takes one

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time but sometimes it's been 2 or 3

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times when I've had to you know the

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field and then I've come back and then I

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gasp for breath my stop no but the

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length of time is the longer it takes me

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for to recover I would say I've gone

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longer than because obviously I can't

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just sit off after and experience you

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know I'm source right you know trying to

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absorb everything can try to yeah

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reconnect with my body I imagine it's

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physically draining as well hey as long

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as we have Oliver there who is your son

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as you just mentioned

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Oliver have you ever witnessed directly

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Beverly doing this kind of reentry re

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resuscitation self resuscitation

275
00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:40,100
and she's been in this condition um well

276
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:42,710
yeah I mean I've witnessed it many times

277
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:47,690
and sometimes you had to restrain

278
00:12:54,100 --> 00:12:51,890
because the force is so powerful you

279
00:12:56,650 --> 00:12:54,110
know she could easily hurt herself she

280
00:12:59,500 --> 00:12:56,660
could fall out of bed and she could hit

281
00:13:04,120 --> 00:12:59,510
a head so sometimes you know you have to

282
00:13:06,730 --> 00:13:04,130
sit by her and um make sure that when

283
00:13:09,550 --> 00:13:06,740
she is coming back she isn't going to

284
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:09,560
harm herself physically you know so so

285
00:13:15,010 --> 00:13:11,770
you've seen your mom and your mom is

286
00:13:18,340 --> 00:13:15,020
essentially dead appears to be dead no

287
00:13:20,410 --> 00:13:18,350
no breathing no anything if you were to

288
00:13:21,580 --> 00:13:20,420
reach down and take her pulse I don't

289
00:13:23,530 --> 00:13:21,590
know if you've ever done that maybe you

290
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:23,540
can tell us she doesn't appear to have

291
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:25,970
any pulse and this goes on for how long

292
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:29,690
and then what is that self resuscitation

293
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:33,200
process like well I don't actually

294
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:35,330
intervene with the process at all I've

295
00:13:40,630 --> 00:13:38,810
got to say that it probably started when

296
00:13:44,110 --> 00:13:40,640
I was very young

297
00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:44,120
you know I first became aware of their

298
00:13:50,530 --> 00:13:46,910
problem when I was around 11 years old

299
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:50,540
and many times I just thought she was

300
00:13:56,829 --> 00:13:53,330
asleep and as a child of that age I

301
00:13:59,260 --> 00:13:56,839
didn't really you know understand death

302
00:14:00,940 --> 00:13:59,270
or what to do if you do discover someone

303
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:00,950
death and I imagine that's the same case

304
00:14:05,410 --> 00:14:02,450
with many young children you know it's

305
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:05,420
it's one of those things and it was only

306
00:14:11,020 --> 00:14:08,330
as I got older I picked up on you know

307
00:14:15,610 --> 00:14:11,030
how cold she was you know how

308
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:15,620
unresponsive she was um but you know it

309
00:14:20,980 --> 00:14:18,410
always seemed to occur that when I would

310
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:20,990
be around her if I would hear movements

311
00:14:25,180 --> 00:14:23,210
I would go and check in on her and then

312
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:25,190
the jerking would start suddenly soon

313
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:30,410
after I can't say that I was there when

314
00:14:34,270 --> 00:14:32,240
she you know were put into bed and say

315
00:14:37,930 --> 00:14:34,280
goodnight and then she would go through

316
00:14:40,329 --> 00:14:37,940
the physical death and then if I heard

317
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:40,339
something later on half an hour an hour

318
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:42,650
later go in and check her and then

319
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:45,050
within a couple of seconds the jerking

320
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:46,850
would start and then I would know that

321
00:14:50,050 --> 00:14:48,410
something's wrong so I would there I

322
00:14:50,540 --> 00:14:50,060
would be there to supervise that she

323
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:50,550
didn't

324
00:14:57,050 --> 00:14:52,800
sample in terms of applying like CPR

325
00:14:58,100 --> 00:14:57,060
mouth so no no no I know I mean great I

326
00:15:00,949 --> 00:14:58,110
appreciate that

327
00:15:02,980 --> 00:15:00,959
it's just now we have someone else it

328
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:02,990
was even though you're a family member

329
00:15:08,590 --> 00:15:06,000
you're just telling it like you

330
00:15:10,850 --> 00:15:08,600
experienced it and it corroborates

331
00:15:13,460 --> 00:15:10,860
Beverly's account and then just one

332
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:13,470
other kind of minor detail on this so

333
00:15:20,690 --> 00:15:16,320
the time period Beverly your best guess

334
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:20,700
in terms of how long these after or

335
00:15:25,790 --> 00:15:23,040
actual death experiences as you call

336
00:15:27,650 --> 00:15:25,800
them how long those last what's your

337
00:15:32,509 --> 00:15:27,660
best guess and you said there's a range

338
00:15:34,579 --> 00:15:32,519
what is the range well I would say the

339
00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:34,589
best guess a couple of minutes because

340
00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:39,240
you know I don't know to be honest Alex

341
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:42,390
I really really don't know and I feel

342
00:15:45,620 --> 00:15:43,920
like it's only a couple of minutes

343
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:45,630
because it doesn't seem to be any any

344
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:50,610
tying concept whether you pass over so

345
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,410
one minute it's happening next we now

346
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:54,720
have the experience and I see what I see

347
00:16:00,019 --> 00:15:57,450
and do what I do and the next thing you

348
00:16:02,449 --> 00:16:00,029
know because the consciousness is well

349
00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:02,459
the physical death itself is is quite a

350
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:05,100
you know it's the natural physical death

351
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:07,290
it's not paying forward quite pleasant

352
00:16:13,790 --> 00:16:09,360
it's just a transfer of consciousness

353
00:16:18,050 --> 00:16:13,800
and then the coming back so it all just

354
00:16:20,510 --> 00:16:18,060
happens so am I actually out longer well

355
00:16:21,620 --> 00:16:20,520
you know I don't really know to be

356
00:16:23,750 --> 00:16:21,630
honest with you too

357
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:23,760
to be fair but all the people have also

358
00:16:27,460 --> 00:16:25,290
witnessed II you know when friends have

359
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:27,470
stayed over and things like that like

360
00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:30,570
I've had a friend staying over and we

361
00:16:36,889 --> 00:16:32,880
talked to Thoth you know in bed because

362
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:36,899
sleep over and she's gone down the next

363
00:16:40,430 --> 00:16:38,970
day she's gone to get all of us condos

364
00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:40,440
like you know mom had one of those

365
00:16:46,730 --> 00:16:43,440
experiences last night and she was quite

366
00:16:49,340 --> 00:16:46,740
frightened by it so it's not just the

367
00:16:53,060 --> 00:16:49,350
family members who witnesses is also

368
00:16:55,310 --> 00:16:53,070
lots of other people over the years so

369
00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:55,320
it's been quite it's quite traumatic

370
00:16:59,720 --> 00:16:57,570
distinctive for other people to actually

371
00:17:01,310 --> 00:16:59,730
witness this to be honest video right

372
00:17:03,740 --> 00:17:01,320
and I understand from your account that

373
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:03,750
it's quite traumatic for you even both

374
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:04,530
the physical

375
00:17:11,180 --> 00:17:06,570
part of it and you feel very drained and

376
00:17:13,430 --> 00:17:11,190
physically not not well after it but

377
00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:13,440
then also as we'll talk about the

378
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:15,900
spiritual process of what you've gone

379
00:17:22,550 --> 00:17:20,010
through so I don't know it does seem to

380
00:17:27,170 --> 00:17:22,560
be quite a toll on you right well it is

381
00:17:31,370 --> 00:17:27,180
because it's this the physical aspects

382
00:17:35,660 --> 00:17:31,380
of Israel is from 1992 I had the most

383
00:17:39,050 --> 00:17:35,670
horrendous absolutely horrendous burning

384
00:17:42,340 --> 00:17:39,060
pain in my head constantly and we're

385
00:17:45,950 --> 00:17:42,350
talking to point up you could not

386
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:45,960
commuting torch it and I would like I

387
00:17:52,130 --> 00:17:49,890
was just almost like a vegetable to be

388
00:17:54,970 --> 00:17:52,140
quite quite honest with you I just sit

389
00:17:57,500 --> 00:17:54,980
there and I could not move and if anyone

390
00:18:01,490 --> 00:17:57,510
tried to put the hand near in my head

391
00:18:03,710 --> 00:18:01,500
and just bear more and they used to if

392
00:18:05,810 --> 00:18:03,720
they would burn then you know when my

393
00:18:07,790 --> 00:18:05,820
emotions changed if I was happy with

394
00:18:09,860 --> 00:18:07,800
been in one place if I'm sad he would

395
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:09,870
burn in another place then it would

396
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:13,650
shift over flow down the back and one my

397
00:18:18,860 --> 00:18:16,890
previous doctor dr. Carson I once went

398
00:18:21,260 --> 00:18:18,870
and I had this attack of the band and

399
00:18:24,370 --> 00:18:21,270
then he sat me down and he realized he

400
00:18:27,140 --> 00:18:24,380
couldn't approach my head and I'm

401
00:18:31,220 --> 00:18:27,150
partially deaf so I don't have natural

402
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:31,230
haven but someone came into the room and

403
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:33,090
even though I couldn't turn myself to

404
00:18:38,090 --> 00:18:36,090
see that person I was able to pick up on

405
00:18:40,610 --> 00:18:38,100
that person's movement around that room

406
00:18:42,830 --> 00:18:40,620
every step of the way she knew from what

407
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:42,840
she did and I was telling dr. cares and

408
00:18:47,470 --> 00:18:45,450
then he was you know sort of observing

409
00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:47,480
this and he was quite taken back by it

410
00:18:54,350 --> 00:18:52,160
so he's affirming I respect I have that

411
00:18:57,650 --> 00:18:54,360
related and I think what that was doing

412
00:19:01,450 --> 00:18:57,660
was helping was part of the physical

413
00:19:04,940 --> 00:19:01,460
aspect of constantly having these IDs so

414
00:19:07,550 --> 00:19:04,950
it's quite uh Taliah renders I still

415
00:19:13,130 --> 00:19:07,560
have it now and then but not as I used

416
00:19:16,300 --> 00:19:13,140
to have it okay so we've established as

417
00:19:18,260 --> 00:19:16,310
well as we can the physical phenomenon

418
00:19:21,980 --> 00:19:18,270
tell us about

419
00:19:24,410 --> 00:19:21,990
the spiritual phenomenon as it one

420
00:19:29,049 --> 00:19:24,420
started and then as it progressed you

421
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:29,059
have some very provocative controversial

422
00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:31,170
information that you've brought back and

423
00:19:36,410 --> 00:19:33,240
also some information that you think is

424
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:36,420
important scientifically if we will

425
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:38,640
about what's going on with consciousness

426
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:41,280
so gee where do you want to begin I

427
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:44,160
don't know I mean I would say it's all

428
00:19:49,910 --> 00:19:46,770
about if you said why why have you been

429
00:19:52,780 --> 00:19:49,920
having a upset about our evolution it's

430
00:19:56,060 --> 00:19:52,790
about learning and every now and then

431
00:19:58,880 --> 00:19:56,070
you know we get these odd cases like

432
00:20:00,740 --> 00:19:58,890
mine thrown in and it gives science it

433
00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:00,750
gives the medical profession it gives us

434
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,080
all an ability to look deeper into

435
00:20:10,340 --> 00:20:06,240
something that interests us and that

436
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:10,350
might have answers and spiritually one

437
00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:12,480
of the things that you know I often hear

438
00:20:21,530 --> 00:20:16,860
you know if you don't believe that an

439
00:20:24,919 --> 00:20:21,540
NDE is is a real event and I say well

440
00:20:27,890 --> 00:20:24,929
it's caused by false memories or

441
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:27,900
illusions I can say without any

442
00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:30,450
hesitation that is absolutely not the

443
00:20:38,299 --> 00:20:35,910
case because it's just you know the

444
00:20:41,660 --> 00:20:38,309
things that I saw the things that I was

445
00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:41,670
being taught some of them I didn't like

446
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,260
Alex I'll be honest with you I really

447
00:20:47,450 --> 00:20:45,360
didn't like them and I certainly

448
00:20:50,510 --> 00:20:47,460
wouldn't have been able to associated

449
00:20:54,770 --> 00:20:50,520
with my life as it was before they

450
00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:54,780
started you know I had in the beginning

451
00:21:00,919 --> 00:20:58,050
I mean as you know from the book I

452
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:00,929
always meet the Jesus but in the

453
00:21:07,220 --> 00:21:05,130
beginning you know I was more excited

454
00:21:10,330 --> 00:21:07,230
and more percent the fact I've never my

455
00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:10,340
not mind my father he passed over and

456
00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:13,260
then even that experience where he

457
00:21:18,049 --> 00:21:15,480
actually already said to me with lens du

458
00:21:20,660 --> 00:21:18,059
jour talk Beverly and then I came back

459
00:21:22,910 --> 00:21:20,670
and I can remember afterwards feeling

460
00:21:25,340 --> 00:21:22,920
quite disappointed like it's a lease

461
00:21:29,150 --> 00:21:25,350
business you know I I love you I miss

462
00:21:29,810 --> 00:21:29,160
you you know I've never met you know in

463
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:29,820
the afterlife

464
00:21:33,210 --> 00:21:30,640
I know your

465
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:33,220
I familiar you're there and it's all

466
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:34,810
you're going to say to me you know I

467
00:21:40,620 --> 00:21:37,570
want I want you to tell me how much you

468
00:21:43,230 --> 00:21:40,630
love me miss me and things right now you

469
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:43,240
know so whatever I wanted I didn't get

470
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:46,450
in that respect if you can understand

471
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:49,120
where I'm coming from here you know you

472
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:49,930
know what I mean

473
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:52,090
you know like there was in the beginning

474
00:21:59,610 --> 00:21:57,360
I tried to control them because you know

475
00:22:02,250 --> 00:21:59,620
that's my personality

476
00:22:04,050 --> 00:22:02,260
and I thought well if I can control like

477
00:22:06,180 --> 00:22:04,060
I saw you know because one time I

478
00:22:09,390 --> 00:22:06,190
thought I was becoming a psychic you

479
00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:09,400
know a medium and I remember lying down

480
00:22:14,850 --> 00:22:11,830
on the bed and I remember saying like

481
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:14,860
okay I'm going to have one now no I

482
00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:17,650
didn't happen and then if I were you

483
00:22:22,980 --> 00:22:20,230
know I feel extremely tired because I

484
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:22,990
always noticed that before I had one I

485
00:22:28,530 --> 00:22:25,210
would get extremely tired as if the

486
00:22:31,470 --> 00:22:28,540
energies draining from me and I'd say no

487
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:31,480
I don't want one no and I'd beg and

488
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:35,770
plead please no and I'd have one so as

489
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:38,050
far as my control is concerned it was it

490
00:22:45,450 --> 00:22:41,530
was you know it was in receiver there's

491
00:22:47,130 --> 00:22:45,460
nothing there so so but really you just

492
00:22:49,860 --> 00:22:47,140
kind of quickly mentioned a point that I

493
00:22:52,290 --> 00:22:49,870
think is going to be a some bling block

494
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:52,300
for a lot of people for other people

495
00:22:55,740 --> 00:22:54,310
it's going to be the greatest point of

496
00:22:58,260 --> 00:22:55,750
your whole thing and that's this

497
00:23:01,640 --> 00:22:58,270
encounter with Jesus as you understand

498
00:23:04,740 --> 00:23:01,650
that talk about that when did it begin

499
00:23:07,470 --> 00:23:04,750
how did you come to know that was Jesus

500
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:07,480
who do you understand Jesus to be the

501
00:23:11,730 --> 00:23:09,520
other really controversial things as you

502
00:23:14,370 --> 00:23:11,740
talk about the new divine teachings of

503
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:14,380
de Jesus prophesies that you've brought

504
00:23:19,890 --> 00:23:16,960
back from Jesus predictions that you say

505
00:23:21,690 --> 00:23:19,900
have come true during this period that

506
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:21,700
you've had this all that's going to be

507
00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:25,360
very interesting to people well I

508
00:23:29,610 --> 00:23:27,940
straighten it but he was there from the

509
00:23:31,890 --> 00:23:29,620
beginning you know when I was telling

510
00:23:35,070 --> 00:23:31,900
you about how in the beginning I was

511
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:35,080
just coming out partially I did notice

512
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:36,640
that there was a figure in the corner

513
00:23:41,910 --> 00:23:40,000
and he was the figure was dressed like a

514
00:23:43,270 --> 00:23:41,920
monk couldn't see his face or anything

515
00:23:45,610 --> 00:23:43,280
there just the shadow

516
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:45,620
bigger and that actually scared me

517
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:48,770
because you know that was my bedroom and

518
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:52,010
I didn't know that that was in the

519
00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:53,930
spirit that that that I was actually

520
00:24:03,130 --> 00:24:00,080
seeing that but when I first realized it

521
00:24:06,970 --> 00:24:03,140
was him has to be the one where I I

522
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:06,980
actually asked him I said are you my

523
00:24:13,630 --> 00:24:10,490
Lord Jesus and he look like

524
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:13,640
why do you ask child do you not know and

525
00:24:21,670 --> 00:24:19,490
then I felt this horrendous she's not

526
00:24:23,770 --> 00:24:21,680
not shamed but there's like silliness

527
00:24:26,170 --> 00:24:23,780
for even asking me because I could feel

528
00:24:27,250 --> 00:24:26,180
it was him I could see it was him I

529
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:27,260
could see his face

530
00:24:34,870 --> 00:24:30,650
you know and his disciples were there

531
00:24:37,540 --> 00:24:34,880
and even though I could when you know

532
00:24:40,090 --> 00:24:37,550
that you feel loved as well there was

533
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:40,100
this amazing feeling around and they was

534
00:24:47,850 --> 00:24:42,290
a mixture of love but it was also this

535
00:24:50,610 --> 00:24:47,860
like authority that came from him and

536
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:50,620
you do mention in the book that you were

537
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:53,570
frightened during these periods - you

538
00:24:58,180 --> 00:24:56,330
weren't it wasn't all love and light

539
00:25:01,000 --> 00:24:58,190
with Jesus you were also afraid of him

540
00:25:02,380 --> 00:25:01,010
right well I was I was afraid of what

541
00:25:05,830 --> 00:25:02,390
was happening to me Alex

542
00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:05,840
because when I realized I couldn't

543
00:25:11,890 --> 00:25:10,190
control them I kept thinking I wasn't

544
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:11,900
thinking because I didn't understand

545
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:14,480
that the concept of near-death

546
00:25:18,940 --> 00:25:16,400
experiences I've never heard of it

547
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:18,950
before or actual death experience or

548
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:21,290
astral traveling or antibody experiences

549
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:24,770
so what was going through my mind you

550
00:25:29,350 --> 00:25:26,810
know very young naive mind at the time

551
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:29,360
was I'm cheating death you know it's my

552
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:33,050
time and obviously I didn't want to die

553
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:36,710
you know I wanted to live I wanted to be

554
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:39,110
a wife or one to be a mother because I

555
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:41,090
had it not been young daughter I had a

556
00:25:48,790 --> 00:25:45,650
home and so I was very very scared

557
00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:48,800
because I couldn't understand why kept

558
00:25:55,630 --> 00:25:51,710
tapping and I kept they I just said you

559
00:25:56,790 --> 00:25:55,640
know I'm dying I'm magic I'm gonna die

560
00:25:59,950 --> 00:25:56,800
you're huggin

561
00:26:02,710 --> 00:25:59,960
and you know much of my child's gonna

562
00:26:04,420 --> 00:26:02,720
grow up without her mother and there

563
00:26:09,010 --> 00:26:04,430
weren't any immediate answers to these

564
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:09,020
questions right now absolutely no it not

565
00:26:14,460 --> 00:26:11,330
at all whatsoever and it was just like I

566
00:26:17,860 --> 00:26:14,470
was just fumbling fumbling along and

567
00:26:21,550 --> 00:26:17,870
what I ended up doing I suppose is I

568
00:26:25,180 --> 00:26:21,560
ended up starting to understand that

569
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:25,190
you've got to have faith you've got to

570
00:26:31,270 --> 00:26:28,490
have courage and you've got to have a

571
00:26:34,030 --> 00:26:31,280
little bit of strength to believe in

572
00:26:36,250 --> 00:26:34,040
your convictions and the one thing that

573
00:26:38,730 --> 00:26:36,260
I did understand about Jesus because I'm

574
00:26:41,410 --> 00:26:38,740
not I'm not actually a religious person

575
00:26:45,340 --> 00:26:41,420
well one thing I understood about his

576
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:45,350
story shall we say is that he's not a

577
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:48,290
bad person you know he's not he comes

578
00:26:54,850 --> 00:26:51,170
with Murphy comes of salvation comes

579
00:26:59,280 --> 00:26:54,860
with all these nice things so I had to

580
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:59,290
learn to try and trust him and try and

581
00:27:04,410 --> 00:27:01,600
physically and mentally and emotionally

582
00:27:07,870 --> 00:27:04,420
put that in a compartment saying well

583
00:27:11,530 --> 00:27:07,880
okay you're there I'm meeting you and

584
00:27:15,340 --> 00:27:11,540
I'm coming back okay I don't know why I

585
00:27:19,150 --> 00:27:15,350
don't understand it but I'm still living

586
00:27:21,150 --> 00:27:19,160
absorb reading so you know and that's

587
00:27:24,250 --> 00:27:21,160
why I tried to do all the time but I did

588
00:27:28,410 --> 00:27:24,260
live though I had I started become very

589
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:28,420
successful in my career and I was afraid

590
00:27:35,550 --> 00:27:32,930
John my joyful person but behind the

591
00:27:38,530 --> 00:27:35,560
smile there was that nagging feeling of

592
00:27:41,530 --> 00:27:38,540
sadness that no one understood you know

593
00:27:44,380 --> 00:27:41,540
so if you know I mean I was hiding

594
00:27:46,930 --> 00:27:44,390
behind a mask a lot of it is you in your

595
00:27:48,940 --> 00:27:46,940
career as a as a writer of children's

596
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:48,950
books yeah

597
00:27:55,150 --> 00:27:51,530
because those what I noticed I was doing

598
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:55,160
is I was unnoticed that I would see

599
00:27:58,930 --> 00:27:57,050
something you know I don't I would see

600
00:28:02,050 --> 00:27:58,940
these buildings made of precious stones

601
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:02,060
and it was amazing I mean it's obviously

602
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:03,650
going to be amazing if you saw a

603
00:28:06,910 --> 00:28:04,640
building maybe

604
00:28:08,380 --> 00:28:06,920
precious stones you gasp because it's of

605
00:28:11,019 --> 00:28:08,390
the beauty

606
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:11,029
and what I found I was actually doing is

607
00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:13,850
when I was then creating my children's

608
00:28:18,490 --> 00:28:14,510
books

609
00:28:21,490 --> 00:28:18,500
I was actually allowing the NDEs to

610
00:28:24,060 --> 00:28:21,500
influence the characters like for

611
00:28:28,169 --> 00:28:24,070
instance one of my characters became

612
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:28,179
Lord Imus he's the spirit council and

613
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:31,610
basically that was Jesus if you can you

614
00:28:36,940 --> 00:28:35,330
see what I was doing sure the characters

615
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:36,950
the snow mites were all named after

616
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:39,110
precious gems and he adopted the color

617
00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:41,600
and then I was describing this place

618
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:44,260
called heaven Deena so I was actually

619
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:48,110
doing that for a long long time I was

620
00:28:52,060 --> 00:28:50,240
gonna say but these ideas he eats when

621
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:52,070
we're not about just writing a

622
00:29:00,100 --> 00:28:56,090
children's story a lot more complex and

623
00:29:04,060 --> 00:29:00,110
far more important to us than now gone

624
00:29:08,009 --> 00:29:04,070
oh sure sure no very good point taken um

625
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:08,019
so you know from communicating me

626
00:29:11,710 --> 00:29:10,010
communicating with me in the past and

627
00:29:15,539 --> 00:29:11,720
from kind of being aware of the skeptic

628
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:15,549
Osho I've really explored this topic of

629
00:29:20,799 --> 00:29:18,370
extended consciousness and in particular

630
00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:20,809
near-death experience I've explored a

631
00:29:27,330 --> 00:29:23,110
lot because I think it's tremendously

632
00:29:30,129 --> 00:29:27,340
important particularly given the

633
00:29:33,129 --> 00:29:30,139
cultural bias we still have the

634
00:29:35,799 --> 00:29:33,139
scientific oriented cultural bias we

635
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:35,809
have against this you know so if you go

636
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:38,690
out any poll you do ninety percent of

637
00:29:43,539 --> 00:29:41,360
people will believe that there's more

638
00:29:45,639 --> 00:29:43,549
that there's something like god or

639
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:45,649
however you want to put it but when we

640
00:29:50,740 --> 00:29:48,490
turn to science and the intellectual

641
00:29:53,409 --> 00:29:50,750
academia kind of thing there's this real

642
00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:53,419
rejection of it so I'm very open to this

643
00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:56,240
I'm open to the idea of Christ

644
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:58,370
consciousness because it pops up again

645
00:30:01,269 --> 00:29:59,360
and again and again

646
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:01,279
and when I say Christ consciousness I'm

647
00:30:05,470 --> 00:30:03,250
making a distinction between our

648
00:30:08,139 --> 00:30:05,480
historical accounts of this figure

649
00:30:11,740 --> 00:30:08,149
called Jesus and what people are

650
00:30:13,899 --> 00:30:11,750
experiencing in these extended

651
00:30:16,350 --> 00:30:13,909
consciousness realms if you will either

652
00:30:20,879 --> 00:30:16,360
through after death experiences

653
00:30:22,060 --> 00:30:20,889
near-death experiences odd after death

654
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:22,070
communication

655
00:30:26,110 --> 00:30:23,600
experiences like with mediums or

656
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:26,120
whatever people talk to Jesus see Jesus

657
00:30:31,420 --> 00:30:28,610
even through psychedelics people see

658
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:31,430
Jesus talk to Jesus so I'm not closed to

659
00:30:36,580 --> 00:30:33,890
all that but at the same time in trying

660
00:30:38,620 --> 00:30:36,590
to get a handle on it the best I can

661
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:38,630
as someone who has not had a near-death

662
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:43,490
experience I am drawn to the data the

663
00:30:47,050 --> 00:30:45,200
evidence you know I sent you the video

664
00:30:49,810 --> 00:30:47,060
with dr. Jeff long who's probably

665
00:30:52,870 --> 00:30:49,820
explored this more than anyone else and

666
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:52,880
what you find is you get a lot of people

667
00:30:57,580 --> 00:30:56,000
who say they've experienced Jesus or

668
00:30:59,710 --> 00:30:57,590
something like Jesus or like you said

669
00:31:01,270 --> 00:30:59,720
someone who they felt was this kind of

670
00:31:03,010 --> 00:31:01,280
Supreme Being they weren't sure it was

671
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:03,020
Jesus but then you get a lot of other

672
00:31:07,810 --> 00:31:06,170
people who say something different or

673
00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:07,820
that they'd say that the religions are

674
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:11,350
just kind of a metaphor for all this

675
00:31:17,970 --> 00:31:14,570
supreme goodness in light that leads up

676
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:17,980
to this hierarchical thing so one of my

677
00:31:22,420 --> 00:31:20,450
interest areas in talking to you

678
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:22,430
Beverley is to try and sort out this

679
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:25,970
Jesus thing because I think it's it's

680
00:31:31,180 --> 00:31:28,370
tricky there's a lot of evidence for it

681
00:31:33,790 --> 00:31:31,190
but like I say if you go look at the

682
00:31:36,940 --> 00:31:33,800
body of the evidence like dr. Jeff long

683
00:31:40,420 --> 00:31:36,950
did in his latest book it really points

684
00:31:44,020 --> 00:31:40,430
more towards this consciousness that

685
00:31:46,990 --> 00:31:44,030
extends beyond one particular religion

686
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:47,000
do you have any insight into you know

687
00:31:52,270 --> 00:31:49,370
like as a long speech on my part but

688
00:31:54,430 --> 00:31:52,280
I'll it leads up to a quote that in your

689
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:54,440
book you say Jesus is the Son of God I

690
00:32:00,550 --> 00:31:56,570
mean that kind of shuts the door to a

691
00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:00,560
lot of other things if you will yeah

692
00:32:05,020 --> 00:32:02,960
kind of like with the sand maggots I'm

693
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:05,030
saying you know it's all good it's

694
00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:07,930
religious reasons his book breaks no I

695
00:32:17,650 --> 00:32:13,310
mean as I I was as I encountered him as

696
00:32:19,630 --> 00:32:17,660
the information that was coming to me it

697
00:32:21,610 --> 00:32:19,640
was coming to me that he was because for

698
00:32:24,220 --> 00:32:21,620
instance the the first time I wasn't

699
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:24,230
able to speak I wasn't able to say

700
00:32:30,060 --> 00:32:27,440
anything I'm these disciples who were

701
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:30,070
there who claimed to be his disciples

702
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:35,090
made me show Jesus's respect made me

703
00:32:42,910 --> 00:32:40,250
and bow my head and I said and that's

704
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:42,920
how it would come across in England it

705
00:32:49,230 --> 00:32:44,930
was also come across there when he was

706
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:49,240
present Alex is really important the

707
00:32:57,250 --> 00:32:53,360
evil spirit which the word evil has been

708
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:57,260
her inner ott for bad spirit or or what

709
00:33:04,330 --> 00:32:59,360
you want to call it you know destruction

710
00:33:06,750 --> 00:33:04,340
spirit could not it was afraid of this

711
00:33:09,610 --> 00:33:06,760
this this man he was afraid of him and

712
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:09,620
it would literally like you know cower

713
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:12,890
away now I never sensed any kind of

714
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:16,310
religion around him I never sensed any

715
00:33:21,850 --> 00:33:19,610
religion in the afterlife but I did

716
00:33:24,670 --> 00:33:21,860
sense that he was the son of God and I

717
00:33:28,420 --> 00:33:24,680
did sense that he was the teacher and I

718
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:28,430
also sense that it basically he comes

719
00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:31,850
and and his part in all this was to

720
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:34,880
educate us on what we had actually

721
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:37,760
taught ourselves if that's a better word

722
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:41,110
cottony there wasn't a sort of a

723
00:33:48,250 --> 00:33:45,770
condensation or condemning or judgment

724
00:33:52,180 --> 00:33:48,260
that that wasn't what came across it was

725
00:33:54,850 --> 00:33:52,190
more of a sense of right and our

726
00:33:56,770 --> 00:33:54,860
instance he would ask me a question and

727
00:33:59,320 --> 00:33:56,780
I would reply the questioners as I

728
00:34:02,110 --> 00:33:59,330
thought was the truth like you know why

729
00:34:06,790 --> 00:34:02,120
did you do something I answer back and

730
00:34:09,130 --> 00:34:06,800
obviously what we think we we do things

731
00:34:11,649 --> 00:34:09,140
with the reason we think we do things

732
00:34:14,139 --> 00:34:11,659
and the reason we are actually doing

733
00:34:19,659 --> 00:34:14,149
them don't always tally with each other

734
00:34:20,590 --> 00:34:19,669
and so until I actually realize that I

735
00:34:24,030 --> 00:34:20,600
wasn't answering

736
00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:24,040
truthfully I kept having to go back and

737
00:34:30,430 --> 00:34:26,720
answer my question and dig a little

738
00:34:33,370 --> 00:34:30,440
deeper into you know and what the truth

739
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:33,380
of that are the answer was from me you

740
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:36,290
know as in who I was as person and

741
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:38,240
that's why they called The Who am I

742
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:41,210
because you actually ask yourself Who am

743
00:34:48,070 --> 00:34:45,919
I you know what what person am I what

744
00:34:48,339 --> 00:34:48,080
kind of person am i what do I know what

745
00:34:55,149 --> 00:34:48,349
do

746
00:34:58,509 --> 00:34:55,159
so you know it's like I mean I could say

747
00:35:01,120 --> 00:34:58,519
to you for starters when I grew up what

748
00:35:03,930 --> 00:35:01,130
influenced me about Jesus was I don't

749
00:35:07,839 --> 00:35:03,940
know if if you remember if it was a and

750
00:35:10,690 --> 00:35:07,849
the film called Jesus of Nazareth and

751
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:10,700
came out Easter do you ever remember

752
00:35:15,249 --> 00:35:12,650
that I don't remember that particular

753
00:35:18,430 --> 00:35:15,259
one but go ahead I would have been about

754
00:35:21,549 --> 00:35:18,440
12 years old and that was how I learned

755
00:35:23,799 --> 00:35:21,559
about him and I learnt about him when I

756
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:23,809
was younger but it was all very a

757
00:35:28,420 --> 00:35:26,690
childish it was a through church it

758
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:28,430
wasn't through Sunday school because I

759
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:30,049
didn't I didn't go to church if

760
00:35:35,710 --> 00:35:31,970
conventional school I didn't have

761
00:35:38,319 --> 00:35:35,720
religious parents free you know he

762
00:35:41,799 --> 00:35:38,329
didn't he didn't sit me down in the

763
00:35:43,930 --> 00:35:41,809
spiritual essence and say well you you

764
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:43,940
have to go to church you have to do that

765
00:35:50,620 --> 00:35:47,210
you have to find me through this Avenue

766
00:35:53,009 --> 00:35:50,630
or that Avenue what he did do is you can

767
00:35:58,499 --> 00:35:53,019
find me through speaking the truth and

768
00:36:01,239 --> 00:35:58,509
the truth was this may underpinning

769
00:36:04,479 --> 00:36:01,249
educating lesson of everything you know

770
00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:04,489
speak the truth for now doesn't matter

771
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:06,710
and if you don't like what truth that

772
00:36:14,319 --> 00:36:10,160
you are change yourself become a better

773
00:36:17,769 --> 00:36:14,329
person you know to me that that's

774
00:36:18,779 --> 00:36:17,779
invaluable because at first I didn't

775
00:36:26,140 --> 00:36:18,789
want to listen

776
00:36:28,059 --> 00:36:26,150
sure I got told off a lot yeah I get

777
00:36:29,109 --> 00:36:28,069
that so here I'm going to persist a

778
00:36:30,819 --> 00:36:29,119
little bit further with this because

779
00:36:34,809 --> 00:36:30,829
it's just of great interest to me

780
00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:34,819
so the who am i teaching is awesome it's

781
00:36:41,469 --> 00:36:37,609
somewhat Universal it's a lot of wisdom

782
00:36:44,049 --> 00:36:41,479
traditions as is the teaching of truth

783
00:36:47,259 --> 00:36:44,059
of seeking the truth of being the truth

784
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:47,269
all that also kind of universal both

785
00:36:52,059 --> 00:36:50,089
those fit in with the research I'm going

786
00:36:54,579 --> 00:36:52,069
to continually point to again and again

787
00:36:56,799 --> 00:36:54,589
in this show of dr. Jeff long because

788
00:36:59,079 --> 00:36:56,809
he's the first near-death experience

789
00:36:59,700 --> 00:36:59,089
researcher who was brave enough to kind

790
00:37:01,920 --> 00:36:59,710
of

791
00:37:04,620 --> 00:37:01,930
look past the basic evidence that

792
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:04,630
suggests as you pointed out that these

793
00:37:10,020 --> 00:37:07,930
experiences are real they're a medical

794
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:10,030
mystery and the only conclusion we can

795
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:12,490
draw from them medically scientifically

796
00:37:17,839 --> 00:37:14,770
is that consciousness somehow in some

797
00:37:20,670 --> 00:37:17,849
way we don't understand extends beyond

798
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:20,680
bodily death that's the conclusion of

799
00:37:24,990 --> 00:37:23,050
virtually every not virtually every

800
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:25,000
near-death experiencer I know of who's

801
00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:27,330
actually studied the phenomenon so

802
00:37:32,609 --> 00:37:29,950
there's one that's the physical part

803
00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:32,619
what I like about dr. long is then he's

804
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:34,480
gone one step further and say okay now

805
00:37:39,210 --> 00:37:36,970
that we've established that it's fair to

806
00:37:41,910 --> 00:37:39,220
start looking at the content and start

807
00:37:44,790 --> 00:37:41,920
understanding these experiences in the

808
00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:44,800
aggregate in the whole in terms of what

809
00:37:50,970 --> 00:37:48,160
people are getting and what they're

810
00:37:56,099 --> 00:37:50,980
finding what he is finding doesn't

811
00:37:58,829 --> 00:37:56,109
support the idea you know Jesus is the

812
00:38:00,900 --> 00:37:58,839
Son of God there's one path it's Jesus

813
00:38:02,370 --> 00:38:00,910
this is it that doesn't really come

814
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:02,380
through when you look at all the

815
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:05,530
experiences some people experience that

816
00:38:09,420 --> 00:38:07,359
if that's what they're meant to

817
00:38:12,030 --> 00:38:09,430
experience if that's how the teaching

818
00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:12,040
needs to come through to them that's

819
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:15,089
what they experience but people of other

820
00:38:20,609 --> 00:38:17,650
religious traditions or spiritual

821
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:20,619
traditions get kind of the same message

822
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:23,170
they just get it in a different way and

823
00:38:27,450 --> 00:38:25,359
that last part let me add in because I

824
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:27,460
want to be kind of precise that was kind

825
00:38:31,290 --> 00:38:29,680
of my interpretation of it but it's been

826
00:38:33,810 --> 00:38:31,300
the interpretation of many people is

827
00:38:37,070 --> 00:38:33,820
that it seems like in these extended

828
00:38:40,650 --> 00:38:37,080
consciousness realms it's kind of an as

829
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:40,660
below so above kind of thing so the way

830
00:38:45,570 --> 00:38:43,450
we learn things the way we understand

831
00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:45,580
them inside of a cultural narrative that

832
00:38:52,770 --> 00:38:49,359
we're already familiar with in is is how

833
00:38:56,670 --> 00:38:52,780
they're delivered to us it in this

834
00:38:59,339 --> 00:38:56,680
extended realm as well so the question

835
00:39:02,760 --> 00:38:59,349
then through all that is do you think

836
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:02,770
that this experience and this Jesus

837
00:39:07,170 --> 00:39:05,050
thing is exclusive you think everyone's

838
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:07,180
going through that path or eventually

839
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:09,250
we'll go through that path or do you

840
00:39:14,820 --> 00:39:11,970
think it is this kind of

841
00:39:18,180 --> 00:39:14,830
plurality of different spiritual paths

842
00:39:20,070 --> 00:39:18,190
that many near-death experience people

843
00:39:22,859 --> 00:39:20,080
might be experiencing in different ways

844
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:22,869
I'm not looking to lead you in that I

845
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:26,800
just like your best guess based on what

846
00:39:32,579 --> 00:39:29,170
you've experienced I can only answer it

847
00:39:34,260 --> 00:39:32,589
that way officer from what I saw from

848
00:39:37,230 --> 00:39:34,270
what I learned it's something that

849
00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:37,240
everyone will eventually go through I

850
00:39:44,130 --> 00:39:40,089
mean I saw my own father who passed away

851
00:39:47,910 --> 00:39:44,140
in 82 and he was an alcoholic my name's

852
00:39:51,650 --> 00:39:47,920
alive and he didn't believe in Jesus but

853
00:39:55,950 --> 00:39:51,660
I saw him in in the presence of users so

854
00:39:58,740 --> 00:39:55,960
you know that sound like he was there I

855
00:40:02,280 --> 00:39:58,750
was there and he acknowledged the

856
00:40:04,859 --> 00:40:02,290
presence of Jesus and that was quite

857
00:40:07,050 --> 00:40:04,869
surprising because I you know as I said

858
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:07,060
I've never even heard him speak the name

859
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:12,160
Jesus when I was growing up so I think I

860
00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:14,800
think I'm trying to answer that you know

861
00:40:22,140 --> 00:40:18,310
for me to see my father in the presence

862
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:22,150
and was going through some kind of human

863
00:40:26,460 --> 00:40:24,609
learning from him because that very

864
00:40:29,010 --> 00:40:26,470
first one I was talking to you about you

865
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:29,020
know the one where and he said learn to

866
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:33,250
do your talk Beverly that was it later I

867
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:35,650
actually only met my dad three times in

868
00:40:39,870 --> 00:40:38,530
the whole 30 years which you know I wish

869
00:40:41,339 --> 00:40:39,880
I'd have met him a lot more but

870
00:40:45,540 --> 00:40:41,349
obviously it wasn't to be

871
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:45,550
but in a later one he actually told me

872
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:48,010
that what he was doing that first time

873
00:40:56,670 --> 00:40:52,650
around was he was learning that his

874
00:40:59,760 --> 00:40:56,680
parental skills towards me when he was

875
00:41:01,920 --> 00:40:59,770
alive wasn't in my best interest and

876
00:41:04,380 --> 00:41:01,930
that he should have been a more

877
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:04,390
disciplined parent love than this trying

878
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:06,880
to be you know best friends kind of

879
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:08,560
thing because my dad never gave me

880
00:41:14,030 --> 00:41:11,410
discipline insane so I could understand

881
00:41:16,589 --> 00:41:14,040
why he said learn to do as you're told

882
00:41:18,750 --> 00:41:16,599
but the answer didn't come until several

883
00:41:21,930 --> 00:41:18,760
years later but at least I understood

884
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:21,940
then that's why he said it you see where

885
00:41:27,690 --> 00:41:25,090
I'm coming from sure yeah yeah

886
00:41:29,550 --> 00:41:27,700
so you know for him to meet G for him to

887
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:29,560
be there in the presence when Jesus was

888
00:41:36,830 --> 00:41:33,850
there um he's gone for me you know he's

889
00:41:41,340 --> 00:41:36,840
having this one-to-one journey with him

890
00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:41,350
so I mean the same as when I met mine

891
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:44,110
my mother passed over and and actually

892
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:48,730
my myelitis and when he passed him and

893
00:41:55,950 --> 00:41:51,010
that again is another interesting part

894
00:41:59,970 --> 00:41:55,960
because it was quite a messy divorce and

895
00:42:00,330 --> 00:41:59,980
we hadn't spoken to each other in 15

896
00:42:04,770 --> 00:42:00,340
years

897
00:42:05,700 --> 00:42:04,780
it was really bad Alex and yet I had

898
00:42:08,940 --> 00:42:05,710
this 8ee

899
00:42:10,590 --> 00:42:08,950
in which I saw you know my ex-husband

900
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:10,600
and he actually stepped forward and you

901
00:42:16,710 --> 00:42:13,330
stand-in with Jesus and he actually said

902
00:42:19,620 --> 00:42:16,720
to me you know become healthier and and

903
00:42:23,100 --> 00:42:19,630
at the time I was so terrible I used to

904
00:42:26,130 --> 00:42:23,110
still smoke with Sochaux Naughton and he

905
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:26,140
told me to stop smoking but when I came

906
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:29,410
out of there I actually was in so many t

907
00:42:36,750 --> 00:42:32,770
hours so emotional because here we are

908
00:42:39,570 --> 00:42:36,760
as two intelligent people not speaking

909
00:42:40,940 --> 00:42:39,580
to me children when we had this life and

910
00:42:43,620 --> 00:42:40,950
here he was

911
00:42:46,860 --> 00:42:43,630
now he's passed over and all he had to

912
00:42:49,980 --> 00:42:46,870
say to me was words of love you know I

913
00:42:52,350 --> 00:42:49,990
mean because that was it was a loving

914
00:42:54,060 --> 00:42:52,360
message he wanted the best for me he

915
00:42:57,270 --> 00:42:54,070
wanted me to improve my life

916
00:43:00,150 --> 00:42:57,280
and you know I'll forever be grateful to

917
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:00,160
him and when our friends we are actually

918
00:43:06,540 --> 00:43:04,090
now friends so it just goes to show you

919
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:06,550
you know and I never had my my

920
00:43:10,940 --> 00:43:08,770
ex-husband speak about Jesus when he was

921
00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:10,950
alive either

922
00:43:20,310 --> 00:43:17,110
okay okay as huh no no it's it's it's

923
00:43:22,650 --> 00:43:20,320
all very good so let's I mean people are

924
00:43:26,580 --> 00:43:22,660
going to be intrigued from the title

925
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:26,590
about his that is Jesus's spiritual

926
00:43:33,750 --> 00:43:29,530
prophecies and the new divine teachings

927
00:43:37,350 --> 00:43:33,760
that you have brought back so lay it on

928
00:43:39,140 --> 00:43:37,360
what's the word of the prophecies what

929
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:39,150
are the new divine teachings

930
00:43:49,410 --> 00:43:46,330
from 1987 to 1990 to 1992 I never

931
00:43:52,530 --> 00:43:49,420
actually wrote anything down about the

932
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:52,540
the Eddy's ladies you know I never wrote

933
00:43:56,970 --> 00:43:54,610
down what I was experiencing yes it

934
00:43:59,970 --> 00:43:56,980
influenced my children's writing but I

935
00:44:03,300 --> 00:43:59,980
never wrote anything down and then in

936
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:03,310
the September of nineteen Mach the

937
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:07,810
August of 1992 my ad suddenly changed

938
00:44:13,170 --> 00:44:10,810
and I was having them quite regular I'm

939
00:44:16,530 --> 00:44:13,180
not talking about they were happening

940
00:44:19,380 --> 00:44:16,540
over and over new have been like once

941
00:44:22,380 --> 00:44:19,390
every two weeks once every two hundred

942
00:44:27,170 --> 00:44:22,390
to two times a week and I just have no

943
00:44:31,260 --> 00:44:27,180
no life at all I'm just so drained and

944
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:31,270
what happening is when I was coming back

945
00:44:36,780 --> 00:44:34,480
instead of you know just going straight

946
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:36,790
straight into consciousness I was

947
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:38,650
entering into this like a trance state

948
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:40,450
of consciousness where I wasn't

949
00:44:44,070 --> 00:44:42,640
completely back but I was Ginny Jean

950
00:44:48,660 --> 00:44:44,080
some where I'm coming from

951
00:44:51,780 --> 00:44:48,670
yeah and I start writing and and these

952
00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:51,790
dis letters that I was writing oh I like

953
00:44:56,340 --> 00:44:53,680
something some of them were like 30 40

954
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:56,350
pages long and I didn't stop you know I

955
00:45:03,860 --> 00:45:00,160
didn't know a miles right now what I was

956
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:03,870
actually writing but I can remember that

957
00:45:09,420 --> 00:45:06,330
it was like I would ask the question

958
00:45:11,970 --> 00:45:09,430
this is you know Beverly the woman was

959
00:45:13,590 --> 00:45:11,980
asking a question and then this the

960
00:45:15,780 --> 00:45:13,600
spiritual entity this higher

961
00:45:19,020 --> 00:45:15,790
consciousness was answering that

962
00:45:21,660 --> 00:45:19,030
question on such a level that it was

963
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:21,670
absolutely astronomical and that level

964
00:45:29,790 --> 00:45:24,010
of insulin was what Jesus had been

965
00:45:32,310 --> 00:45:29,800
speaking about in the 80s like okay the

966
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:32,320
reason why I was taking onto this

967
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:36,250
journey there was one ad in which he

968
00:45:43,140 --> 00:45:38,410
carried my spirit and we ended up news

969
00:45:46,050 --> 00:45:43,150
like this the most incredible area of

970
00:45:49,380 --> 00:45:46,060
space so to speak you know there's the

971
00:45:52,529 --> 00:45:49,390
stars and everything from Susie like the

972
00:45:55,079 --> 00:45:52,539
galaxies were there and below me I

973
00:45:58,439 --> 00:45:55,089
see the planet Earth and I knew it was a

974
00:45:59,819 --> 00:45:58,449
planet F and next money he helped me

975
00:46:02,759 --> 00:45:59,829
next minute we've just rented this

976
00:46:06,209 --> 00:46:02,769
incredible speed and when around the

977
00:46:08,819 --> 00:46:06,219
global F and back up into space and then

978
00:46:12,059 --> 00:46:08,829
I was held there and then I turned

979
00:46:14,809 --> 00:46:12,069
slowly round and then eventually I was

980
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:14,819
pulled back or came back into my body

981
00:46:22,919 --> 00:46:19,119
now he actually refers to this one as

982
00:46:24,749 --> 00:46:22,929
Sam you know when I was telling you took

983
00:46:27,299 --> 00:46:24,759
me time to understand and trust and he

984
00:46:31,219 --> 00:46:27,309
refers to this one why do you still not

985
00:46:35,219 --> 00:46:31,229
trust he says I have carried a spirit

986
00:46:37,949 --> 00:46:35,229
around the earth in and in stable form

987
00:46:40,909 --> 00:46:37,959
and retained just there safely back into

988
00:46:43,859 --> 00:46:40,919
your body why do you still not trust a

989
00:46:47,459 --> 00:46:43,869
thing isn't this article now I didn't

990
00:46:49,979 --> 00:46:47,469
still trust him and I thought I did and

991
00:46:53,969 --> 00:46:49,989
you say no your truth is that you don't

992
00:46:56,489 --> 00:46:53,979
and he was right because if I did really

993
00:46:58,049 --> 00:46:56,499
trust him 100% I wouldn't have been

994
00:46:59,699 --> 00:46:58,059
lying there nighttimes then I'll please

995
00:47:01,679 --> 00:46:59,709
no no no I don't want another one

996
00:47:03,989 --> 00:47:01,689
you know I would have embraced him more

997
00:47:07,499 --> 00:47:03,999
I would have said yes you know teach me

998
00:47:09,809 --> 00:47:07,509
everything but I was always reserved so

999
00:47:11,909 --> 00:47:09,819
he was correct you know there was that

1000
00:47:12,539 --> 00:47:11,919
element where I still didn't trust him

1001
00:47:16,019 --> 00:47:12,549
completely

1002
00:47:19,319 --> 00:47:16,029
oh I'm sorry sir you know upset people

1003
00:47:22,620 --> 00:47:19,329
but I loved loved him very much and I

1004
00:47:27,169 --> 00:47:22,630
just didn't know that was in me you know

1005
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:27,179
tha yeah so it's like her arm's length

1006
00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:30,249
so what are what are some of the

1007
00:47:34,109 --> 00:47:32,079
prophecies you've said that some of the

1008
00:47:36,779 --> 00:47:34,119
prophecies that Jesus gave you have

1009
00:47:38,579 --> 00:47:36,789
actually come true what are some of

1010
00:47:42,179 --> 00:47:38,589
those they have because they were

1011
00:47:45,390 --> 00:47:42,189
talking about them it was like him well

1012
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:45,400
there was particularly one man and he

1013
00:47:51,599 --> 00:47:48,249
was showing me that this man would go to

1014
00:47:55,579 --> 00:47:51,609
jail and the reason for those because

1015
00:47:57,839 --> 00:47:55,589
this man was taking a dark path in life

1016
00:48:01,529 --> 00:47:57,849
and showed me what happened to this man

1017
00:48:04,180 --> 00:48:01,539
spirit and so I wrote it down and I

1018
00:48:05,890 --> 00:48:04,190
actually tried to warn this man

1019
00:48:08,860 --> 00:48:05,900
and I didn't know what I was warning him

1020
00:48:10,210 --> 00:48:08,870
again so I said you know if you carry on

1021
00:48:10,810 --> 00:48:10,220
doing what you're doing you're gonna go

1022
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:10,820
to prison

1023
00:48:21,550 --> 00:48:17,440
was also one of the things about these

1024
00:48:23,260 --> 00:48:21,560
spiritual prophecies is my 80s changed

1025
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:23,270
slightly and this is the surprise I'm

1026
00:48:26,940 --> 00:48:24,770
going to bring down to you because this

1027
00:48:31,660 --> 00:48:26,950
is something that I've never read before

1028
00:48:34,450 --> 00:48:31,670
okay now one of the things he used to do

1029
00:48:36,730 --> 00:48:34,460
to me in some of the 80s is when I

1030
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:36,740
didn't go through the light and I'd

1031
00:48:42,340 --> 00:48:38,810
literally be like ever found had be

1032
00:48:44,860 --> 00:48:42,350
exploring the earth here and what he

1033
00:48:48,670 --> 00:48:44,870
actually did with me is it was sort of

1034
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:48,680
like he put me into stand observing the

1035
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:51,440
life of others in their physical life as

1036
00:48:56,290 --> 00:48:53,920
they were speaking and doing things

1037
00:48:59,050 --> 00:48:56,300
obviously they couldn't see me he

1038
00:49:01,600 --> 00:48:59,060
couldn't see him but I was able to hear

1039
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:01,610
them and see them and then when I came

1040
00:49:08,110 --> 00:49:04,880
back I wrote down what I actually saw

1041
00:49:11,220 --> 00:49:08,120
and what I actually heard and on two

1042
00:49:13,870 --> 00:49:11,230
occasions and this is quite quite

1043
00:49:16,060 --> 00:49:13,880
astonishing on two occasions two people

1044
00:49:19,810 --> 00:49:16,070
actually say they saw me on two

1045
00:49:23,530 --> 00:49:19,820
occasions now when those when I met with

1046
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:23,540
people I said I there was even a man

1047
00:49:33,220 --> 00:49:29,570
even I think of 2014 2013 he sense that

1048
00:49:35,740 --> 00:49:33,230
I was there only after I saw was I

1049
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:35,750
supposed to see and I don't go to there

1050
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:38,290
my way for them to come to me he says

1051
00:49:42,550 --> 00:49:40,010
were you there

1052
00:49:44,940 --> 00:49:42,560
and I said yeah and then I told my Thor

1053
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:44,950
and they confirm with them and that's

1054
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:49,040
random people acts so you know not

1055
00:49:52,330 --> 00:49:50,690
people who are just friends you are

1056
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:52,340
going to consume it because they don't

1057
00:50:00,970 --> 00:49:56,210
want to hurt my feelings you know so how

1058
00:50:03,490 --> 00:50:00,980
can an ende be illusions or false

1059
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:03,500
memories if you can actually say what

1060
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:05,210
people are doing in their physical lives

1061
00:50:10,810 --> 00:50:08,570
and it's correct it's impossible for it

1062
00:50:15,510 --> 00:50:10,820
to be you know the lesions or the false

1063
00:50:17,850 --> 00:50:15,520
memories so that's kind of thing

1064
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:17,860
so Beverly one of the things that you

1065
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:19,810
mentioned and Oliver mentioned this to

1066
00:50:25,100 --> 00:50:21,970
me in the email exchange so I'm going to

1067
00:50:28,020 --> 00:50:25,110
bring it up you believe that you have a

1068
00:50:29,790 --> 00:50:28,030
new and important understanding about

1069
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:29,800
the relationship between consciousness

1070
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:33,930
in the physical realm physical plane and

1071
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:36,730
consciousness in this extended plane

1072
00:50:40,950 --> 00:50:38,890
spiritual plane do you want to talk a

1073
00:50:43,590 --> 00:50:40,960
little bit about that well what it

1074
00:50:47,130 --> 00:50:43,600
basically is Alex and it's fascinating

1075
00:50:49,980 --> 00:50:47,140
and it's it's something that will help

1076
00:50:54,630 --> 00:50:49,990
us evolve because what he taught me

1077
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:54,640
was that every one of us we are we were

1078
00:50:59,220 --> 00:50:56,530
all together we're all linked together

1079
00:51:02,000 --> 00:50:59,230
we'll have this consciousness and the

1080
00:51:05,610 --> 00:51:02,010
physical mind this earthly consciousness

1081
00:51:09,540 --> 00:51:05,620
we are a teacher and the thoughts that

1082
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:09,550
we have are teaching our spiritual

1083
00:51:16,380 --> 00:51:10,810
essence our teaching our higher

1084
00:51:20,220 --> 00:51:16,390
consciousness and that in turn develops

1085
00:51:21,750 --> 00:51:20,230
the emotions well it might be a bit

1086
00:51:25,410 --> 00:51:21,760
difficult to explain this over the radio

1087
00:51:26,730 --> 00:51:25,420
for instance you are having a larger

1088
00:51:28,860 --> 00:51:26,740
conversation with yourself

1089
00:51:31,380 --> 00:51:28,870
all the time even though you might not

1090
00:51:34,020 --> 00:51:31,390
realize them but if you actually sit

1091
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:34,030
back and think okay what are my thoughts

1092
00:51:39,300 --> 00:51:37,330
what are the general thoughts say for

1093
00:51:41,250 --> 00:51:39,310
instance you wanted to watch the

1094
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:41,260
television this is just a small example

1095
00:51:47,610 --> 00:51:45,490
okay I want to watch the TV I wonder

1096
00:51:49,770 --> 00:51:47,620
what's on and then you pick up no

1097
00:51:53,340 --> 00:51:49,780
detainee on oh I'm in the mood for

1098
00:51:55,980 --> 00:51:53,350
comedy you flip your comedy comes on now

1099
00:51:59,010 --> 00:51:55,990
if you examine if you just out of just

1100
00:52:01,790 --> 00:51:59,020
curiosity Alex write down what you think

1101
00:52:05,220 --> 00:52:01,800
your full process would be during our

1102
00:52:07,530 --> 00:52:05,230
experiment and you'll actually see that

1103
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:07,540
it doesn't make logic sense because it's

1104
00:52:13,350 --> 00:52:09,450
all sort of like Direction thought

1105
00:52:15,870 --> 00:52:13,360
what's actually happening to you is your

1106
00:52:18,060 --> 00:52:15,880
higher consciousness is asking you why

1107
00:52:20,910 --> 00:52:18,070
why do I want to watch TV

1108
00:52:23,100 --> 00:52:20,920
what am I in the mood for and that's a

1109
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:23,110
part that you don't hear and not giving

1110
00:52:27,549 --> 00:52:24,970
you an actual logic conversation with

1111
00:52:30,489 --> 00:52:27,559
24/7 will turn and

1112
00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:30,499
and when we look at this when we look at

1113
00:52:35,140 --> 00:52:32,529
angie's instead of just looking at

1114
00:52:37,329 --> 00:52:35,150
beautiful silence that it just looking

1115
00:52:39,189 --> 00:52:37,339
at the beauty we need to look at the

1116
00:52:43,209 --> 00:52:39,199
psychological side of it we need to look

1117
00:52:45,429 --> 00:52:43,219
at each experiencer how they began and

1118
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:45,439
go right through it and see how it

1119
00:52:50,319 --> 00:52:48,170
changed them and and see the

1120
00:52:53,019 --> 00:52:50,329
psychological aspect of what change

1121
00:52:57,130 --> 00:52:53,029
there and I think we will get much more

1122
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:57,140
answers because you know it when you

1123
00:53:02,170 --> 00:52:59,359
understand that your you are your own

1124
00:53:05,380 --> 00:53:02,180
teacher and all your thoughts are

1125
00:53:10,299 --> 00:53:05,390
teaching you this you know spiritual and

1126
00:53:12,069 --> 00:53:10,309
NC then it kind of like knocks things

1127
00:53:14,589 --> 00:53:12,079
like addiction in the head because you

1128
00:53:17,049 --> 00:53:14,599
can actually tear and say yeah I don't

1129
00:53:20,469 --> 00:53:17,059
need I do not want another drink it's

1130
00:53:22,929 --> 00:53:20,479
not good for me and you can sever the

1131
00:53:25,529 --> 00:53:22,939
emotional aspect of wanting that drink

1132
00:53:27,839 --> 00:53:25,539
quite by taking control of your own life

1133
00:53:30,789 --> 00:53:27,849
what you seem to be suggesting is that

1134
00:53:33,669 --> 00:53:30,799
in a way that we're not fully aware of

1135
00:53:35,949 --> 00:53:33,679
we are constantly in dialogue with that

1136
00:53:37,959 --> 00:53:35,959
higher consciousness that spiritual

1137
00:53:40,839 --> 00:53:37,969
consciousness just the extent to which

1138
00:53:43,559 --> 00:53:40,849
it penetrates in our minute-by-minute

1139
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:43,569
kind of monkey brain consciousness is

1140
00:53:49,870 --> 00:53:46,689
dependent on how much we're willing to

1141
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:49,880
allow it to and and physically what

1142
00:53:53,979 --> 00:53:51,650
we've been doing down on this plane my

1143
00:53:55,479 --> 00:53:53,989
kind of getting that right is that

1144
00:53:57,609 --> 00:53:55,489
that's the distinction you want to make

1145
00:53:59,529 --> 00:53:57,619
is that we're always in communication

1146
00:54:00,279 --> 00:53:59,539
with that higher consciousness yes

1147
00:54:02,019 --> 00:54:00,289
definitely

1148
00:54:03,759 --> 00:54:02,029
we are always and the thing about the

1149
00:54:06,429 --> 00:54:03,769
higher consciousness spiritual mind

1150
00:54:09,729 --> 00:54:06,439
because this is what I saw because and

1151
00:54:12,219 --> 00:54:09,739
in those who my prophecies there was

1152
00:54:14,259 --> 00:54:12,229
diagrams of how the human mind was

1153
00:54:17,199 --> 00:54:14,269
working you know now I'm not a scientist

1154
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:17,209
Alex so I wouldn't know this stuff so

1155
00:54:21,759 --> 00:54:19,249
but we now showed it to doctors and

1156
00:54:24,309 --> 00:54:21,769
things I found lived like oh well this

1157
00:54:26,650 --> 00:54:24,319
is blowing my mind but we are constantly

1158
00:54:29,469 --> 00:54:26,660
in in a communication with that and

1159
00:54:33,029 --> 00:54:29,479
think about the spiritual mind in the

1160
00:54:36,130 --> 00:54:33,039
spirit it governs all your emotions so

1161
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:36,140
you can learn to control your emotions

1162
00:54:41,380 --> 00:54:39,170
to be so balanced that you have an

1163
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:41,390
actual peaceful beautiful

1164
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:45,050
by by understanding that you are in

1165
00:54:50,740 --> 00:54:48,770
control you are 100% in control of what

1166
00:54:53,319 --> 00:54:50,750
you are you know you are doing the

1167
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:53,329
decisions you make and things like you

1168
00:54:59,290 --> 00:54:56,810
know if you're in an unhappy happy

1169
00:55:01,690 --> 00:54:59,300
relationship you have to have courage

1170
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:01,700
you you have to end that relationship

1171
00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:03,890
and not be afraid to be on your own

1172
00:55:10,359 --> 00:55:07,730
because being on your own is better than

1173
00:55:12,460 --> 00:55:10,369
being in a subjective relationship if

1174
00:55:14,500 --> 00:55:12,470
you see where I'm coming from it

1175
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:14,510
actually affects every aspect of life

1176
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:16,970
you know Peverley just in the last

1177
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:19,130
episode of skeptic oh I interviewed a

1178
00:55:25,630 --> 00:55:22,000
woman who is a psychic and a medium and

1179
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:25,640
quite surprisingly to her all this was

1180
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:27,650
more or less thrust upon her you know

1181
00:55:32,859 --> 00:55:30,650
she was an engineer in the United States

1182
00:55:35,290 --> 00:55:32,869
just kind of bopping along and all of a

1183
00:55:37,089 --> 00:55:35,300
sudden boom she starts hearing these

1184
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:37,099
voices from the spirit world

1185
00:55:42,099 --> 00:55:39,530
wasn't it an after death or near-death

1186
00:55:44,319 --> 00:55:42,109
experience he just starts experiencing

1187
00:55:45,609 --> 00:55:44,329
this and this has been reported by a lot

1188
00:55:47,500 --> 00:55:45,619
of people so she went and tried to

1189
00:55:49,450 --> 00:55:47,510
figure out what's going on she first

1190
00:55:51,940 --> 00:55:49,460
went through the medical route and said

1191
00:55:54,579 --> 00:55:51,950
hey am I crazy this and that and came to

1192
00:55:56,980 --> 00:55:54,589
understand that she was encountering

1193
00:55:58,930 --> 00:55:56,990
spirits in this extended realm some

1194
00:56:00,819 --> 00:55:58,940
people don't accept that other people do

1195
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:00,829
what does your understanding tell you

1196
00:56:07,059 --> 00:56:03,170
about one whether you should do that

1197
00:56:09,819 --> 00:56:07,069
whether that is dangerous and not in

1198
00:56:12,970 --> 00:56:09,829
line with your understanding of what

1199
00:56:14,589 --> 00:56:12,980
Jesus is telling us to do is there evil

1200
00:56:16,589 --> 00:56:14,599
in those realms I mean these are the

1201
00:56:19,240 --> 00:56:16,599
questions two people want this has been

1202
00:56:20,829 --> 00:56:19,250
this has been the condom put out there

1203
00:56:22,599 --> 00:56:20,839
quite a bit that you know these these

1204
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:22,609
realms are dangerous and you shouldn't

1205
00:56:29,980 --> 00:56:27,050
you shouldn't delve into them I would

1206
00:56:34,530 --> 00:56:29,990
have to say from my experiences that I

1207
00:56:37,780 --> 00:56:34,540
wouldn't what's worked for I wouldn't

1208
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:37,790
encourage people doing things like Ouija

1209
00:56:42,099 --> 00:56:40,490
boards and things like that what about

1210
00:56:44,829 --> 00:56:42,109
talking to a medium after someone has

1211
00:56:47,559 --> 00:56:44,839
passed well from what I understand that

1212
00:56:50,349 --> 00:56:47,569
is going on there Alex can I explain why

1213
00:56:51,700 --> 00:56:50,359
I'm stunned see she's communicating the

1214
00:56:54,670 --> 00:56:51,710
meetings communicated through a

1215
00:56:57,820 --> 00:56:54,680
spiritual mind and how I understand

1216
00:57:00,820 --> 00:56:57,830
how it works is a safe

1217
00:57:03,790 --> 00:57:00,830
say for instance me but my father's

1218
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:03,800
passed over well there is a link between

1219
00:57:07,630 --> 00:57:05,690
me my father on this higher

1220
00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:07,640
consciousness because we have this love

1221
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:10,640
when he was alive so there's this link

1222
00:57:18,700 --> 00:57:16,130
there that goes on now as I see when you

1223
00:57:20,860 --> 00:57:18,710
open your higher consciousness you can

1224
00:57:23,910 --> 00:57:20,870
because the spirit actually communicates

1225
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:23,920
who thought it's not spoken words and

1226
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:26,450
mediums are actually able their

1227
00:57:29,530 --> 00:57:28,160
consciousness the high consciousness is

1228
00:57:33,370 --> 00:57:29,540
opened and they're able to communicate

1229
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:33,380
through thought and the way I understand

1230
00:57:38,710 --> 00:57:34,850
it is they are actually communicating

1231
00:57:40,780 --> 00:57:38,720
with your higher consciousness and

1232
00:57:43,930 --> 00:57:40,790
you're the one who's communicating with

1233
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:43,940
you your father's passed away so you're

1234
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:46,640
giving her the information that's being

1235
00:57:52,210 --> 00:57:48,290
fed that way

1236
00:57:54,940 --> 00:57:52,220
I don't see it that that they can

1237
00:57:57,970 --> 00:57:54,950
actually link themselves to my father

1238
00:58:01,030 --> 00:57:57,980
because there's no there's no energy

1239
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:01,040
between them there's no link now you

1240
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:02,810
know I may be proven wrong on that case

1241
00:58:10,350 --> 00:58:05,930
but it's just how I understand it you

1242
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:10,360
know and why why would someone who

1243
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:14,210
doesn't know me doesn't know my dad be

1244
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:16,160
able to tell me that my dad's passed

1245
00:58:21,100 --> 00:58:18,890
over and he's happy and things like that

1246
00:58:25,180 --> 00:58:21,110
if we get past the mechanics of it

1247
00:58:27,370 --> 00:58:25,190
though what about is it is it evil is it

1248
00:58:29,020 --> 00:58:27,380
you know a lot of people say that

1249
00:58:30,730 --> 00:58:29,030
they're especially in the Christian

1250
00:58:33,550 --> 00:58:30,740
community there's people who say that

1251
00:58:37,570 --> 00:58:33,560
you know all spirit communication that

1252
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:37,580
isn't ordained or mediated by Jesus is

1253
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:40,850
somehow you know evil and what do we do

1254
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:43,250
with that thing about affairs teachings

1255
00:58:47,980 --> 00:58:46,130
is actually teaching us to cultivate our

1256
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:47,990
hand consciousness so that we will

1257
00:58:53,020 --> 00:58:51,410
evolve so eventually we will be able to

1258
00:58:56,110 --> 00:58:53,030
communicate with each other through the

1259
00:58:59,620 --> 00:58:56,120
high consciousness and that imparts the

1260
00:59:03,160 --> 00:58:59,630
Who am I teachings with the diagrams of

1261
00:59:05,740 --> 00:59:03,170
the mind now there is an evil spirit or

1262
00:59:08,349 --> 00:59:05,750
dark spirit whatever you want to call it

1263
00:59:10,210 --> 00:59:08,359
I've seen it and it's not pleasant

1264
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:10,220
what is it what is it what's the your

1265
00:59:16,930 --> 00:59:12,650
best understanding of what it is what is

1266
00:59:20,519 --> 00:59:16,940
that evil negative negative force if

1267
00:59:24,489 --> 00:59:20,529
they can what seems seems to happen is

1268
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:24,499
it's someone who was evil in life okay

1269
00:59:31,479 --> 00:59:26,930
it's someone who did despicable things

1270
00:59:33,789 --> 00:59:31,489
and and when they've passed over they've

1271
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:33,799
literally not wanted to change and

1272
00:59:39,549 --> 00:59:36,410
they've literally absorbed although

1273
00:59:41,650 --> 00:59:39,559
they're the bad things that they did and

1274
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:41,660
they've not wanted to look any further

1275
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:43,730
to change and so they remained in this

1276
00:59:52,509 --> 00:59:49,970
sort of like cocoon of Darkness and you

1277
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:52,519
know I do think they have to be careful

1278
00:59:58,539 --> 00:59:56,210
you do you have to be careful what is

1279
01:00:02,950 --> 00:59:58,549
the relationship between that darkness

1280
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:02,960
that evil and this Jesus like love thing

1281
01:00:08,799 --> 01:00:05,930
that you're talking about petrified of

1282
01:00:12,549 --> 01:00:08,809
him I'm petrified of him I mean I

1283
01:00:15,099 --> 01:00:12,559
learned after you know many many years a

1284
01:00:16,450 --> 01:00:15,109
lot we're talking many years but why be

1285
01:00:18,549 --> 01:00:16,460
petrified I mean the thing I've heard

1286
01:00:21,700 --> 01:00:18,559
over and over again is this spiritual

1287
01:00:23,079 --> 01:00:21,710
teaching that and I'll just throw this

1288
01:00:24,519 --> 01:00:23,089
out you know because it's the only way

1289
01:00:25,839 --> 01:00:24,529
we understand this stuff is if we kind

1290
01:00:28,599 --> 01:00:25,849
of toss it around and stuff like that

1291
01:00:30,940 --> 01:00:28,609
but what I've heard is that the first

1292
01:00:34,539 --> 01:00:30,950
part I've heard that many many times is

1293
01:00:37,989 --> 01:00:34,549
that this evil thing that we do is

1294
01:00:40,930 --> 01:00:37,999
really a confusion part it's a lost part

1295
01:00:42,999 --> 01:00:40,940
it's a as above so below as below so

1296
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:43,009
above you know you can see all the evil

1297
01:00:46,479 --> 01:00:44,480
in this world you don't think that that

1298
01:00:48,670 --> 01:00:46,489
extends what are you thinking it all

1299
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:48,680
changes out immediately transforms no it

1300
01:00:53,319 --> 01:00:50,690
doesn't it extends and then I've also

1301
01:00:56,380 --> 01:00:53,329
heard as you suggested that it it has a

1302
01:00:59,739 --> 01:00:56,390
tendency to maybe kind of coagulate if

1303
01:01:03,069 --> 01:00:59,749
you will so the evil seeks evil and draw

1304
01:01:05,410 --> 01:01:03,079
is drawn to evil for the same bad

1305
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:05,420
reasons that it might be in in this

1306
01:01:09,460 --> 01:01:07,730
realm but what I've also heard is that

1307
01:01:11,789 --> 01:01:09,470
the light is what it's really all about

1308
01:01:16,299 --> 01:01:11,799
everything's going to the light and that

1309
01:01:18,190 --> 01:01:16,309
any evil being at any time can look up

1310
01:01:20,829 --> 01:01:18,200
and look to the light and go to the

1311
01:01:21,819 --> 01:01:20,839
light and be transformed through the

1312
01:01:23,469 --> 01:01:21,829
light and on

1313
01:01:24,910 --> 01:01:23,479
starting to sound really spiritual in a

1314
01:01:26,859 --> 01:01:24,920
way that I don't have any direct

1315
01:01:29,079 --> 01:01:26,869
experience with but I'm just recounting

1316
01:01:30,910 --> 01:01:29,089
what I've heard so is that consistent

1317
01:01:32,890 --> 01:01:30,920
with what you've heard because that kind

1318
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:32,900
of paints a different picture of the

1319
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:35,930
evil that it's all under God's you know

1320
01:01:40,269 --> 01:01:38,930
all under God's light umbrella they're

1321
01:01:41,650 --> 01:01:40,279
just kind of hiding over there in the

1322
01:01:43,989 --> 01:01:41,660
corner and as for as long as they want

1323
01:01:45,549 --> 01:01:43,999
to do that that's their business but

1324
01:01:46,900 --> 01:01:45,559
it's there all have to go to the light

1325
01:01:50,499 --> 01:01:46,910
eventually what do you think about that

1326
01:01:51,759 --> 01:01:50,509
kind of idea yeah I actually I totally

1327
01:01:55,509 --> 01:01:51,769
agree they have to go to the light

1328
01:02:01,989 --> 01:01:55,519
eventually but then there's no sort of

1329
01:02:05,739 --> 01:02:01,999
like not everyone wants to be a nice

1330
01:02:08,170 --> 01:02:05,749
person there's just a few amongst about

1331
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:08,180
quite a few mosters where we live our

1332
01:02:15,339 --> 01:02:11,440
lives with hates and and we kill people

1333
01:02:17,370 --> 01:02:15,349
to avenge people and we don't have a

1334
01:02:20,199 --> 01:02:17,380
consciousness and it's all all about the

1335
01:02:23,499 --> 01:02:20,209
conscience conscience I bet the

1336
01:02:25,439 --> 01:02:23,509
spiritual brain if you don't teach

1337
01:02:29,199 --> 01:02:25,449
yourself the values between good and bad

1338
01:02:33,279 --> 01:02:29,209
then when you pass over you don't seem

1339
01:02:35,769 --> 01:02:33,289
to be um what's well able to understand

1340
01:02:38,559 --> 01:02:35,779
those questions that you've been asked

1341
01:02:42,609 --> 01:02:38,569
above your truth you seem to be

1342
01:02:46,689 --> 01:02:42,619
retaliating from them all the time but

1343
01:02:50,079 --> 01:02:46,699
to me eventually they will come forward

1344
01:02:52,059 --> 01:02:50,089
I mean you know I saw one or two eight

1345
01:02:54,449 --> 01:02:52,069
years where I actually was pointing to

1346
01:02:57,189 --> 01:02:54,459
the light and I was directing a

1347
01:02:58,959 --> 01:02:57,199
spiritual entity to go to the liking and

1348
01:03:01,959 --> 01:02:58,969
seek forgiveness to go to the light and

1349
01:03:05,559 --> 01:03:01,969
learn and that was an interesting one as

1350
01:03:08,199 --> 01:03:05,569
well so so you were you were directed to

1351
01:03:11,140 --> 01:03:08,209
try and help this spirit that was not

1352
01:03:15,489 --> 01:03:11,150
able to go to the light is that what

1353
01:03:20,799 --> 01:03:15,499
you're saying Allah spirit and you know

1354
01:03:23,410 --> 01:03:20,809
I things like um you know even going

1355
01:03:25,749 --> 01:03:23,420
back to that consciousness aspect if you

1356
01:03:27,130 --> 01:03:25,759
teach yourself to swam all the time if

1357
01:03:30,670 --> 01:03:27,140
you're someone who swears all the time

1358
01:03:33,579 --> 01:03:30,680
when we're in a spiritual existence the

1359
01:03:35,630 --> 01:03:33,589
swear word is muted so if you want a

1360
01:03:37,930 --> 01:03:35,640
proper conversation with someone

1361
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:37,940
don't teach yourself to swear because I

1362
01:03:43,570 --> 01:03:41,610
met one one particular gentleman and

1363
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:43,580
he's tried to communicate with me and

1364
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:46,890
every other word was dubbed out you know

1365
01:03:52,730 --> 01:03:50,400
if I feel hello and I couldn't

1366
01:03:54,860 --> 01:03:52,740
understand him enough I got I didn't get

1367
01:03:56,780 --> 01:03:54,870
frustrated with mentis lost interesting

1368
01:03:58,550 --> 01:03:56,790
so I walked away you know if I believe

1369
01:04:00,980 --> 01:03:58,560
with your company you might interest him

1370
01:04:03,230 --> 01:04:00,990
and he became quite frustrated because

1371
01:04:05,870 --> 01:04:03,240
that was happening to him all the time

1372
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:05,880
all the time now somewhere it is

1373
01:04:10,430 --> 01:04:08,850
learning process he's gonna learn you

1374
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:10,440
along to teach yourself to swim all the

1375
01:04:14,450 --> 01:04:12,570
time yeah your spirit is light your

1376
01:04:17,030 --> 01:04:14,460
spirit is beauty is love

1377
01:04:19,180 --> 01:04:17,040
so some people are like love while

1378
01:04:21,110 --> 01:04:19,190
they're swearing so I don't know if I

1379
01:04:23,570 --> 01:04:21,120
you know that those are some of the

1380
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:23,580
things like so a lot of this stuff I can

1381
01:04:29,750 --> 01:04:26,730
totally relate to because I've heard it

1382
01:04:31,670 --> 01:04:29,760
so many times that it has some some

1383
01:04:32,570 --> 01:04:31,680
substance and weight you know because

1384
01:04:35,450 --> 01:04:32,580
I've heard it from so many different

1385
01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:35,460
sources but then other stuff does seem

1386
01:04:41,420 --> 01:04:38,400
to contradict with you know I mean the

1387
01:04:45,100 --> 01:04:41,430
historical Jesus is a mess as we've

1388
01:04:47,510 --> 01:04:45,110
explored on this show so I don't know

1389
01:04:49,550 --> 01:04:47,520
anything about the historical Jesus but

1390
01:04:52,250 --> 01:04:49,560
I know it's a mess I know from the

1391
01:04:55,310 --> 01:04:52,260
beginning the Bible has been corrupted

1392
01:04:57,590 --> 01:04:55,320
and and used by people who want to

1393
01:05:00,200 --> 01:04:57,600
manipulate it so I'm very skeptical of

1394
01:05:01,700 --> 01:05:00,210
Scripture but every skin every line of

1395
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:01,710
that scripture you can take and tear it

1396
01:05:05,660 --> 01:05:03,770
apart and find all sorts of

1397
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:05,670
contradictions and all the rest of this

1398
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:09,210
I'm also I'm skeptical of the stuff like

1399
01:05:14,540 --> 01:05:11,850
you know Jesus doesn't want me to swear

1400
01:05:16,340 --> 01:05:14,550
Jesus doesn't care if I swear not Jesus

1401
01:05:19,550 --> 01:05:16,350
cares what's in my heart right Jesus

1402
01:05:21,740 --> 01:05:19,560
sees through my language I can say any

1403
01:05:23,060 --> 01:05:21,750
freaking thing that I want people don't

1404
01:05:25,220 --> 01:05:23,070
like me to say [\h__\h] so I don't say

1405
01:05:27,770 --> 01:05:25,230
[\h__\h] on the air but I could say

1406
01:05:29,630 --> 01:05:27,780
whatever I want it Jesus is able to look

1407
01:05:31,790 --> 01:05:29,640
through and see my heart and I'm just

1408
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:31,800
substituting their people for Jesus for

1409
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:33,930
the purposes of this conversation the

1410
01:05:38,540 --> 01:05:35,730
other thing you says Jesus wants us to

1411
01:05:40,430 --> 01:05:38,550
follow us Jesus's wants us to be afraid

1412
01:05:43,250 --> 01:05:40,440
and bow down to him and all the rest of

1413
01:05:45,110 --> 01:05:43,260
that again that doesn't jive with what

1414
01:05:47,690 --> 01:05:45,120
what I've heard what I've heard is it's

1415
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:47,700
like a light bulb up there and that

1416
01:05:52,010 --> 01:05:49,290
light bulb is always

1417
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:52,020
there and you can look to that light and

1418
01:05:56,390 --> 01:05:53,970
go there or you cannot look to that

1419
01:05:59,750 --> 01:05:56,400
light but all these little Mickey Mouse

1420
01:06:01,220 --> 01:05:59,760
rules about you know you can't swear you

1421
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:01,230
got a following you got to do this all

1422
01:06:07,370 --> 01:06:02,490
that stuff that we learned in church

1423
01:06:10,580 --> 01:06:07,380
seems to be while useful to some people

1424
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:10,590
is extremely limiting an extremely

1425
01:06:17,330 --> 01:06:14,610
counter to the overall the spirit of the

1426
01:06:20,150 --> 01:06:17,340
teaching if you will as opposed to the

1427
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:20,160
letter of the teaching so I think where

1428
01:06:24,890 --> 01:06:22,050
you coming from there I know what you

1429
01:06:27,740 --> 01:06:24,900
said Jesus doesn't care if I so not it's

1430
01:06:32,090 --> 01:06:27,750
not about that what is to eat teaching

1431
01:06:34,550 --> 01:06:32,100
these things and saying you know why do

1432
01:06:36,230 --> 01:06:34,560
you want to teach your spirit to swear

1433
01:06:39,380 --> 01:06:36,240
because that's what he was explaining

1434
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:39,390
about this teacher in Ozone so when you

1435
01:06:45,020 --> 01:06:42,450
swear when you use our kind of language

1436
01:06:47,810 --> 01:06:45,030
you're you're teaching yourself to do

1437
01:06:51,530 --> 01:06:47,820
that and you are at most you are like

1438
01:06:54,860 --> 01:06:51,540
your you are energy you are yeah amazing

1439
01:06:57,050 --> 01:06:54,870
you you are part of this universe so why

1440
01:07:00,110 --> 01:06:57,060
do you want to limit yourself with you

1441
01:07:04,130 --> 01:07:00,120
know silly language and stuff like that

1442
01:07:07,070 --> 01:07:04,140
and it's that kind of approach rather

1443
01:07:09,590 --> 01:07:07,080
than the oh you must do it this way or

1444
01:07:11,810 --> 01:07:09,600
you must do that way because the end of

1445
01:07:14,930 --> 01:07:11,820
the day you know you can turn away from

1446
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:14,940
in me you just carry on going down going

1447
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:17,610
down this path it does seem to me from

1448
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:19,410
investigating this stuff is that

1449
01:07:26,660 --> 01:07:23,570
everyone has a unique experience with

1450
01:07:28,430 --> 01:07:26,670
this higher consciousness whether we and

1451
01:07:30,410 --> 01:07:28,440
that's kind of the fundamental thing

1452
01:07:32,020 --> 01:07:30,420
that you're trying to bring forward is

1453
01:07:34,700 --> 01:07:32,030
that we're constantly in communication

1454
01:07:38,150 --> 01:07:34,710
with this higher consciousness whether

1455
01:07:41,810 --> 01:07:38,160
we're aware of it or not I wonder and

1456
01:07:45,020 --> 01:07:41,820
worry that we become too literal in

1457
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:45,030
interpreting our unique experience with

1458
01:07:50,780 --> 01:07:48,330
that as somehow being universally true

1459
01:07:52,850 --> 01:07:50,790
and I've just seen that over and over

1460
01:07:54,740 --> 01:07:52,860
again with people who have that

1461
01:07:57,380 --> 01:07:54,750
experience and then they have that

1462
01:07:59,810 --> 01:07:57,390
experience and then they saw whoever

1463
01:08:02,000 --> 01:07:59,820
they saw Jesus or they saw Buddha or

1464
01:08:04,970 --> 01:08:02,010
they saw some great being from the

1465
01:08:07,790 --> 01:08:04,980
passed and they then extrapolate that

1466
01:08:10,970 --> 01:08:07,800
out and say that that is somehow real

1467
01:08:12,820 --> 01:08:10,980
unique and not only really unique to

1468
01:08:15,830 --> 01:08:12,830
them which I can accept but somehow

1469
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:15,840
Universal and a message that everyone

1470
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:18,330
needs to get I'm just less sure about

1471
01:08:24,079 --> 01:08:20,370
that because if I just step back and say

1472
01:08:26,900 --> 01:08:24,089
well gee Beverly there's a dozen dozen

1473
01:08:29,300 --> 01:08:26,910
dozens of people that I can point you to

1474
01:08:32,180 --> 01:08:29,310
right now who have had similar kind of

1475
01:08:35,210 --> 01:08:32,190
out-of-body experiences or channeled

1476
01:08:37,999 --> 01:08:35,220
experiences or near-death experiences

1477
01:08:40,660 --> 01:08:38,009
with some sort of quote-unquote divine

1478
01:08:44,870 --> 01:08:40,670
intelligence and what they've told us

1479
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:44,880
coming back is in some sense consistent

1480
01:08:49,430 --> 01:08:47,250
with what you're saying but in other

1481
01:08:51,650 --> 01:08:49,440
ways not at all consistent with what

1482
01:08:54,130 --> 01:08:51,660
you're saying so that's the challenge I

1483
01:08:57,019 --> 01:08:54,140
think we face it I face in trying to

1484
01:08:59,960 --> 01:08:57,029
understand this and I guess the main

1485
01:09:01,579 --> 01:08:59,970
question I have is do you feel me there

1486
01:09:03,530 --> 01:09:01,589
how you sensitive to what I'm saying

1487
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:03,540
because there's a lot of different stuff

1488
01:09:10,430 --> 01:09:06,330
out there do you think you have the

1489
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:10,440
answer I think that was that my case is

1490
01:09:16,099 --> 01:09:13,290
unique and I think it certainly offers a

1491
01:09:18,559 --> 01:09:16,109
controversial trunks on near-death

1492
01:09:21,940 --> 01:09:18,569
experiences and I think that's quite

1493
01:09:24,769 --> 01:09:21,950
important because I think we don't

1494
01:09:27,950 --> 01:09:24,779
explore the enough experiences to the

1495
01:09:30,769 --> 01:09:27,960
best of our ability because what I from

1496
01:09:33,440 --> 01:09:30,779
what I have learned it's not just a nice

1497
01:09:35,630 --> 01:09:33,450
experiences you know here is love and

1498
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:35,640
everything else it's important it's

1499
01:09:39,410 --> 01:09:37,770
important that we learn about the

1500
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:39,420
consciousness it's important to be

1501
01:09:44,030 --> 01:09:40,770
laying we have the higher consciousness

1502
01:09:46,070 --> 01:09:44,040
it's important to try access the hand

1503
01:09:48,590 --> 01:09:46,080
consciousness so that we can bring some

1504
01:09:51,410 --> 01:09:48,600
healing to this world you know not just

1505
01:09:54,140 --> 01:09:51,420
oh I had this experience and this

1506
01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:54,150
happened and I changed my life how about

1507
01:09:59,330 --> 01:09:56,850
let's try to group these together and

1508
01:10:02,420 --> 01:09:59,340
let looking at them and saying well what

1509
01:10:05,330 --> 01:10:02,430
is the reason that we are being given

1510
01:10:08,570 --> 01:10:05,340
this insight you know there has to be a

1511
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:08,580
bigger reason and that has to be surely

1512
01:10:14,390 --> 01:10:10,530
towards the wealth rather than just to

1513
01:10:15,919 --> 01:10:14,400
an individual's life Society yes we are

1514
01:10:18,530 --> 01:10:15,929
Nestle or pretty

1515
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:18,540
the lemon telex Beverly do you think we

1516
01:10:23,300 --> 01:10:20,880
are at a unique and special time in

1517
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:23,310
history yeah I do

1518
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:25,770
I think we're about to enter into like a

1519
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:27,810
spiritual awareness of spiritual

1520
01:10:34,790 --> 01:10:30,690
awakening and I think if you bring those

1521
01:10:36,919 --> 01:10:34,800
people together and to a point I even

1522
01:10:38,660 --> 01:10:36,929
put it out then I've got no proof about

1523
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:38,670
this by the way but I do put it out

1524
01:10:44,660 --> 01:10:42,000
there that scientists might find more

1525
01:10:47,149 --> 01:10:44,670
information about the reason a certain

1526
01:10:50,390 --> 01:10:47,159
people have an NDA comeback and certain

1527
01:10:53,300 --> 01:10:50,400
people don't might be in our DNA I mean

1528
01:10:56,300 --> 01:10:53,310
could you imagine and the reason I

1529
01:11:00,229 --> 01:10:56,310
actually say that is because without

1530
01:11:02,780 --> 01:11:00,239
trying to sound you know think evil if

1531
01:11:05,149 --> 01:11:02,790
we found something in our DNA as to why

1532
01:11:07,390 --> 01:11:05,159
so people's brain cells might last

1533
01:11:09,620 --> 01:11:07,400
longer and recover quicker

1534
01:11:11,950 --> 01:11:09,630
could you imagine that that could

1535
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:11,960
actually change how we're looking at

1536
01:11:17,570 --> 01:11:15,210
cell deterioration illnesses so there's

1537
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:17,580
more about MDGs than meets the eye

1538
01:11:23,990 --> 01:11:20,010
they're not just a nice spiritual

1539
01:11:26,450 --> 01:11:24,000
experience they are to me will change in

1540
01:11:28,270 --> 01:11:26,460
their life changing and that's what we

1541
01:11:30,950 --> 01:11:28,280
need to start looking at and I think

1542
01:11:33,229 --> 01:11:30,960
scientists should do their part as well

1543
01:11:36,260 --> 01:11:33,239
not just psychologists scientists as

1544
01:11:40,340 --> 01:11:36,270
well I don't disagree with you and I won

1545
01:11:43,459 --> 01:11:40,350
I don't get the sense I don't get the

1546
01:11:46,310 --> 01:11:43,469
sense that NDE researchers are saying

1547
01:11:48,169 --> 01:11:46,320
that it's just this little experience I

1548
01:11:51,410 --> 01:11:48,179
I get the sense that they just don't

1549
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:51,420
know how inside of the medical

1550
01:11:54,860 --> 01:11:53,280
scientific establishment to kind of take

1551
01:11:56,930 --> 01:11:54,870
at that next level and that's why I kept

1552
01:11:58,459 --> 01:11:56,940
pointing to dr. Jeff long because I

1553
01:12:01,610 --> 01:11:58,469
think he's been brave enough to say well

1554
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:01,620
wait it does say more about these bigger

1555
01:12:05,060 --> 01:12:03,210
picture questions we're talking about in

1556
01:12:06,950 --> 01:12:05,070
science but I get you that isn't that

1557
01:12:09,310 --> 01:12:06,960
isn't covered enough let me go back to

1558
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:09,320
the earlier question because you know

1559
01:12:14,630 --> 01:12:11,570
what do you say to the fact that

1560
01:12:17,570 --> 01:12:14,640
throughout our recorded history which is

1561
01:12:20,390 --> 01:12:17,580
relatively short and in this sense but

1562
01:12:21,709 --> 01:12:20,400
at least you know pretty solidly a

1563
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:21,719
hundred years hundred and fifty years

1564
01:12:26,419 --> 01:12:23,850
there's been these constant this is a

1565
01:12:29,300 --> 01:12:26,429
unique time these prophecies whether

1566
01:12:31,490 --> 01:12:29,310
they're apocalyptic prophecies or spear

1567
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:31,500
transformation prophecies over and over

1568
01:12:35,630 --> 01:12:33,450
again I mean we keep hearing this over

1569
01:12:38,540 --> 01:12:35,640
and over again and it you know it never

1570
01:12:42,140 --> 01:12:38,550
seems to come to pass well I'm not

1571
01:12:45,410 --> 01:12:42,150
talking about an actual and singular and

1572
01:12:47,930 --> 01:12:45,420
Alex I'm talking about an educated event

1573
01:12:49,940 --> 01:12:47,940
that's going to start we are going to

1574
01:12:52,130 --> 01:12:49,950
learn more about the human consciousness

1575
01:12:54,440 --> 01:12:52,140
we are going to learn those people

1576
01:12:57,110 --> 01:12:54,450
through freewill but why would it be so

1577
01:12:58,820 --> 01:12:57,120
why would it be so you know temporal in

1578
01:13:00,590 --> 01:12:58,830
this kind of timeframe I mean we're

1579
01:13:03,770 --> 01:13:00,600
talking about first of all do you

1580
01:13:05,270 --> 01:13:03,780
believe in reincarnation I've never

1581
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:05,280
experienced it I'm afraid

1582
01:13:12,380 --> 01:13:09,570
so I can't really give it a opinion I do

1583
01:13:14,990 --> 01:13:12,390
know that many many people have had

1584
01:13:17,870 --> 01:13:15,000
experiences where they actually open

1585
01:13:21,020 --> 01:13:17,880
felt that they were here before but but

1586
01:13:23,030 --> 01:13:21,030
in all your out-of-body experiences and

1587
01:13:25,190 --> 01:13:23,040
experiences with the divine experiences

1588
01:13:30,590 --> 01:13:25,200
with Jesus the idea of reincarnation

1589
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:30,600
never came up not with me that doesn't

1590
01:13:34,610 --> 01:13:32,250
mean safe doesn't exist you know I'm not

1591
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:34,620
saying I'm not saying it doesn't exist

1592
01:13:39,770 --> 01:13:36,690
it's just one thing that just something

1593
01:13:41,780 --> 01:13:39,780
that never came to the surface because

1594
01:13:44,210 --> 01:13:41,790
one of the things that the reincarnation

1595
01:13:46,130 --> 01:13:44,220
research science if you will and there

1596
01:13:48,260 --> 01:13:46,140
has been some pretty decent science on

1597
01:13:51,380 --> 01:13:48,270
it suggests is that we kind of got this

1598
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:51,390
time frame thing really kind of mixed up

1599
01:13:57,070 --> 01:13:53,970
and we're talking about just time as

1600
01:14:01,220 --> 01:13:57,080
being endless and a soul journey being

1601
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:01,230
very very long and that kind of calls

1602
01:14:05,060 --> 01:14:03,090
into question this you know immediacy

1603
01:14:08,030 --> 01:14:05,070
something's happening right now it's

1604
01:14:09,740 --> 01:14:08,040
like well you know you got it's a bigger

1605
01:14:12,490 --> 01:14:09,750
time maybe it's a bigger time scale than

1606
01:14:17,510 --> 01:14:12,500
that what do you think about that idea

1607
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:17,520
well now I think it's more I think what

1608
01:14:21,890 --> 01:14:19,650
we're going to start doing because we

1609
01:14:23,540 --> 01:14:21,900
can only take it so far talking I'm not

1610
01:14:26,210 --> 01:14:23,550
talking about the speech society I'm

1611
01:14:27,950 --> 01:14:26,220
talking about the physical side we can

1612
01:14:29,950 --> 01:14:27,960
only take it so far before we will

1613
01:14:34,100 --> 01:14:29,960
literally start destroying each other

1614
01:14:36,590 --> 01:14:34,110
we're almost there in that respect and I

1615
01:14:39,380 --> 01:14:36,600
think that we are going to step back and

1616
01:14:41,750 --> 01:14:39,390
say enough is enough how can we move

1617
01:14:42,689 --> 01:14:41,760
forward and I think it's going to be

1618
01:14:45,719 --> 01:14:42,699
this away

1619
01:14:49,350 --> 01:14:45,729
evening from the physical aspect if

1620
01:14:52,709 --> 01:14:49,360
that's what you wanted to ask me about

1621
01:14:54,449 --> 01:14:52,719
it's a fact that I think the science

1622
01:14:56,489 --> 01:14:54,459
field will start exploring it more

1623
01:14:59,219 --> 01:14:56,499
they'll start bringing about because the

1624
01:15:02,129 --> 01:14:59,229
consciousness line exists after after

1625
01:15:04,279 --> 01:15:02,139
death it changes so why does the

1626
01:15:07,500 --> 01:15:04,289
consciousness change how does it change

1627
01:15:09,629 --> 01:15:07,510
I'm not easily established when you see

1628
01:15:11,189 --> 01:15:09,639
these people come back and they change

1629
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:11,199
their lives because they've become with

1630
01:15:17,549 --> 01:15:13,570
more knowledge through the the idea the

1631
01:15:20,370 --> 01:15:17,559
NDA so to me I feel like it's going to

1632
01:15:23,399 --> 01:15:20,380
come from us because we're going to want

1633
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:23,409
to change its we're going to reach that

1634
01:15:28,140 --> 01:15:26,170
point you know it's just something

1635
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:28,150
that's going to happen it's evolution to

1636
01:15:32,399 --> 01:15:30,130
me that's what that's the word I'm

1637
01:15:35,009 --> 01:15:32,409
looking for actually that looks really

1638
01:15:36,629 --> 01:15:35,019
good to their evolution you know Beverly

1639
01:15:38,250 --> 01:15:36,639
you've been even great we've been going

1640
01:15:39,209 --> 01:15:38,260
on for quite a time here and I

1641
01:15:41,759 --> 01:15:39,219
appreciate it

1642
01:15:45,359 --> 01:15:41,769
what else should we tell people about

1643
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:45,369
either your experience your teaching the

1644
01:15:48,859 --> 01:15:46,690
book of course they're going to want to

1645
01:15:51,290 --> 01:15:48,869
check out a journey of actual death

1646
01:15:53,729 --> 01:15:51,300
experiences tell folks how they can

1647
01:15:55,739 --> 01:15:53,739
connect with you and if there's anything

1648
01:15:58,649 --> 01:15:55,749
else we really and anything else we

1649
01:16:00,689 --> 01:15:58,659
might want to kind of talk about well

1650
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:00,699
you know they can find the book on the

1651
01:16:08,129 --> 01:16:06,090
internet I'm on Twitter and you know

1652
01:16:10,379 --> 01:16:08,139
just type in my name

1653
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:10,389
Debra Gilmore and try and troll through

1654
01:16:15,330 --> 01:16:13,690
all the monster ink and co writings have

1655
01:16:16,890 --> 01:16:15,340
been written about me you know I can

1656
01:16:19,649 --> 01:16:16,900
assure you I'm not a monster

1657
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:19,659
or an ATM I've had that and thrown at me

1658
01:16:22,919 --> 01:16:20,170
as well

1659
01:16:27,029 --> 01:16:22,929
Iliana what do you think what do you

1660
01:16:29,910 --> 01:16:27,039
think of the alien UFO thing I'm curious

1661
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:29,920
I'm curious I've never seen anything go

1662
01:16:36,359 --> 01:16:32,050
experience everything foe you know I

1663
01:16:39,959 --> 01:16:36,369
mean this is a big universe so Alex you

1664
01:16:42,299 --> 01:16:39,969
know so right I have to be this an email

1665
01:16:43,649 --> 01:16:42,309
address here if you want to what one you

1666
01:16:46,830 --> 01:16:43,659
know I love this email address

1667
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:46,840
sure if you spell out and you want

1668
01:16:54,029 --> 01:16:49,570
anyone who's had an ad or NDA can

1669
01:16:55,189 --> 01:16:54,039
contact me and awesome and for what I've

1670
01:16:57,199 --> 01:16:55,199
been through

1671
01:16:59,479 --> 01:16:57,209
I counsel people who you're going

1672
01:17:03,529 --> 01:16:59,489
through grief situations you know we

1673
01:17:05,330 --> 01:17:03,539
were terminally ill or survivors of

1674
01:17:07,009 --> 01:17:05,340
people who terminally ill so if they

1675
01:17:09,649 --> 01:17:07,019
want to get in touch with me by all

1676
01:17:12,739 --> 01:17:09,659
means do because one of the things I

1677
01:17:14,750 --> 01:17:12,749
want to say is it's about you putting

1678
01:17:17,540 --> 01:17:14,760
yourself out there and just saying you

1679
01:17:21,109 --> 01:17:17,550
know let's spread this lets you know I

1680
01:17:23,629 --> 01:17:21,119
mean let's remember that at the end of

1681
01:17:26,839 --> 01:17:23,639
the day we are all about love we are all

1682
01:17:29,629 --> 01:17:26,849
about positivity and we are all we are

1683
01:17:32,660 --> 01:17:29,639
all capable of amazing things if we come

1684
01:17:36,259 --> 01:17:32,670
together and help each other and then do

1685
01:17:37,969 --> 01:17:36,269
these things so you know by all means

1686
01:17:41,589 --> 01:17:37,979
anyone who wants to get Church for me

1687
01:17:44,239 --> 01:17:41,599
I'm more than happy to answer them

1688
01:17:45,770 --> 01:17:44,249
awesome awesome what's a great it's a

1689
01:17:48,379 --> 01:17:45,780
great message it's a wonderful message

1690
01:17:50,569 --> 01:17:48,389
and I appreciate you coming on and being

1691
01:17:52,189 --> 01:17:50,579
on the show and Oliver thanks again for

1692
01:17:55,310 --> 01:17:52,199
persisting with this and making it

1693
01:17:57,680 --> 01:17:55,320
happen so you just open one thing but I

1694
01:18:01,239 --> 01:17:57,690
really want to thank you for answering

1695
01:18:04,219 --> 01:18:01,249
me in what was it 209 mother to our time

1696
01:18:06,709 --> 01:18:04,229
you know you see there you actually

1697
01:18:10,850 --> 01:18:06,719
reached out to me yeah she said you know

1698
01:18:13,969 --> 01:18:10,860
yoga and that quieted me that that made

1699
01:18:15,290 --> 01:18:13,979
me feel no less of cause one things I

1700
01:18:19,489 --> 01:18:15,300
used to feel like I was a freak of

1701
01:18:22,609 --> 01:18:19,499
nature the odd correspondences arrived

1702
01:18:24,219 --> 01:18:22,619
from people who have been kind I want to

1703
01:18:26,949 --> 01:18:24,229
thank them from the bottom of my heart

1704
01:18:30,919 --> 01:18:26,959
Jeffery long was one of them by the way

1705
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:30,929
so you know you have my deepest to my

1706
01:18:36,529 --> 01:18:34,170
greatest respect forever so appreciate

1707
01:18:38,839 --> 01:18:36,539
that that's very nice of you to say well

1708
01:18:41,449 --> 01:18:38,849
it's been it's been great having you on

1709
01:18:44,449 --> 01:18:41,459
and I hope that we can spread this

1710
01:18:46,819 --> 01:18:44,459
message through this interview so thanks

1711
01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:46,829
again Beverley you take a look after

1712
01:18:54,319 --> 01:18:50,400
those children hahaha will do hahaha bye

1713
01:18:56,390 --> 01:18:54,329
ah thanks again to Beverly for joining

1714
01:18:58,669 --> 01:18:56,400
me today on skeptic oh I guess the big

1715
01:19:01,569 --> 01:18:58,679
question that I'd have to tee up from

1716
01:19:04,939 --> 01:19:01,579
this interview is do you think Beverly

1717
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:04,949
encountered Jesus and what does that

1718
01:19:08,730 --> 01:19:07,610
mean to even say that someone

1719
01:19:13,070 --> 01:19:08,740
encountered

1720
01:19:15,870 --> 01:19:13,080
Jesus during an out-of-body near-death

1721
01:19:18,300 --> 01:19:15,880
experience I know it's a question we've

1722
01:19:20,910 --> 01:19:18,310
looked at before but it does seem to be

1723
01:19:23,940 --> 01:19:20,920
quite central to this whole mission of

1724
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:23,950
trying to chart out these extended

1725
01:19:28,140 --> 01:19:25,930
consciousness realms into the few

1726
01:19:31,140 --> 01:19:28,150
tattered puzzle pieces we have so I

1727
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:31,150
think it's worth visiting again and

1728
01:19:35,010 --> 01:19:33,130
again so love to hear what you think

1729
01:19:37,620 --> 01:19:35,020
about that of course a place to do it is

1730
01:19:38,910 --> 01:19:37,630
through the skeptical website by leaving

1731
01:19:41,220 --> 01:19:38,920
me a comment or sending me an e-mail

1732
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:41,230
there or through the skeptical forum

1733
01:19:47,010 --> 01:19:43,930
where will I hope have an interesting

1734
01:19:49,500 --> 01:19:47,020
dialogue about this as well so I have a

1735
01:19:52,020 --> 01:19:49,510
number of interesting shows coming up

1736
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:52,030
and of course hope you stay with me for

1737
01:19:58,210 --> 01:19:54,730
all of that until next time take care